Temp Control, a Bunch of Hooey?

[seegarfan]

Originally Posted by ColdCuts

But then you gotta run the AC when you're away from home too, no? If you're doing that it's gonna cost ya, especially if you're away from home 40+ hours a week, or away on vacation.

This is true...but again that's not an issue for us. We keep the house on a set temp all the time. 74 degrees in the summer, 68 degrees in the winter. We don't turn them up or down. Once the house temp goes outside those parameters we cool or heat, whichever is required. And in our area the humidity in the summer is so high that even if the temp dropped down in the evening, you don't help yourself out any by turning off the AC and opening windows, because then you just have to run it that much harder to remove the humidity from the home that it does not save anything.

My wife and I made a decision a long time ago that we will be comfortable in our home. If we need to save money it will be else where than in our home comfort.

I don't believe in shivering in the winter or sweating in the summer.

I also have a smoking room in the house that I am able to enjoy year around regardless of outside temp. That is just my philosophy.....I realize everybody's situation may be different......but I believe I have made the case, that for me, to have added temp control to my Aristocrat would have been a waste of money.

Mark

[jkorp]

Originally Posted by ColdCuts

I hear ya jkorp, but why then, do you suppose, the vast majority of humidor cabinets being sold on the web are without temp control?

As for the Aristocrat/Vinotemp compare and contrast, not only do Aristocrats look a helluva lot better than Vinotemps, they allegedly work better too, right? As for me, I'm tired of struggling to keep the RH in my fridgador up, and I'm tired of emptying the drip tray twice a day too. I'd prefer something more maintenance-free and precise.

Could be a several of reasons why there are not many temp control options. One maybe price. Another maybe they are not set and forget like most people want. My Vino is nice and works well, but needs some attention. Thats just the way it is. Another reason maybe be just ignorance. Most people think beetles will never strike them, so why invest the time and money into temp control since you've never had a problem?

As someone else said, I've got too much money tied up in cigars to not spend a little extra and go with a Vino. Hell a Vino is cheaper than any desktop humidor you're going to find. I can fit about 14 boxes and 400 singles in my Vino (with the MTMouse custom trays and drawers). I think I have a total of $240ish tied up in this setup. That aint bad for that volume of temp controlled storage space.

As for your fridgador, what are you using? RH and condensation are problems for you? Aristocrat has just developed a clever way to deal with the same condensation you have, it all gets funneled back to the humidifiers. This is bascially what I've done. Drip goes to a pan of beads. If that pan's beads look to moist, I swap it with the other pan I have in there. Rotate every week or two, I'm in there at least that much so no big deal.

I think a desktop would be more work and worry for me. Would I like a temp controlled Aristorat, damn straigh I would. But I'm not shelling out those beans, at this point in my life (3 kids gonna need braces!!!) for that when I can get 3-4 Vinos for a fraction of the price.

Oh and by the way, I like the look of my Vino, kind of sexy.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by ColdCuts

As a public service, I'm reposting this link. It's pretty much everything you need to know about freezing.

See especially the third post in, by our esteemed moderator, icehog3.

Everyone freezing cigars needs to read that post! Most home freezers in your kitchen are between 25f and 30f and they cycle alot to be frost free. This means many days spent in the freezer, on the other hand a deep freezer at 0f or colder gets the job done in 24hrs. What happens to moisture when freezing changes drastically with the temps also, slower freeze larger ice crystals and more tearing of cells, the colder freeze the smaller the ice crystals and the less damage. I am surprised nobody around here goes for the nitrogen freeze . I personally don't freeze and I sleep just fine at night.

So why do high end cabinet companies have the option for temp controllers?
Since I keep seeing cars creep into comparisons I will use this one...It's like buying a $19000 car and optioning it up to $42000 and people do it. I love the wrx sti but I am not the norm, most will buy the $19-$24000 model and a few will spend the $38000. The same goes for cooling systems in high end cabs. Is it needed? Most say no and a few say $100 yes. Will life become simpler by getting all the options? In my humble opinion the answer is NO, there is just more that can go wrong. The cooling systems drop the temp by only 20 degrees f so if your at 100 degrees f ambient temp your cab is only maintaining 80f so it works best if it only goes up to 85 degrees f ambient.
Wine is the same way, people buy wine fridges (for there wine and not cigars, can you believe it?) to keep them at the right temp. There was a day when wine collectors called anybody with under 3000 bottles a hobbyist and if you have that many or more bottles you don't have fridges you have a wine cellar.

As always with cigars it is a personal choice to what makes you happy.

[ColdCuts]

Originally Posted by jkorp

Could be a several of reasons why there are not many temp control options. One maybe price. Another maybe they are not set and forget like most people want. My Vino is nice and works well, but needs some attention. Thats just the way it is. Another reason maybe be just ignorance. Most people think beetles will never strike them, so why invest the time and money into temp control since you've never had a problem?

As someone else said, I've got too much money tied up in cigars to not spend a little extra and go with a Vino. Hell a Vino is cheaper than any desktop humidor you're going to find. I can fit about 14 boxes and 400 singles in my Vino (with the MTMouse custom trays and drawers). I think I have a total of $240ish tied up in this setup. That aint bad for that volume of temp controlled storage space.

You make some good points, jkorp. So you're suggesting, rather than buy a nice big cabinet, just start buying and stacking Vinotemps, right? You know, maybe I'd consider that if I could get my one fridgador to work perfectly. As it is, I don't want to take on another. I was thinking of a cabinet as the next logical upgrade, and I am well out of room in my EdgeStar 18.

Originally Posted by jkorp

As for your fridgador, what are you using? RH and condensation are problems for you? Aristocrat has just developed a clever way to deal with the same condensation you have, it all gets funneled back to the humidifiers. This is bascially what I've done. Drip goes to a pan of beads. If that pan's beads look to moist, I swap it with the other pan I have in there. Rotate every week or two, I'm in there at least that much so no big deal.

I'm using an EdgeStar 18-bottle. BTW, let me be the first to say, to any Young Apes who are thinking of going the fridgador route: Go with the Vinotemp 28-bottle! It's become the standard around here. And gorillas are custom building well crafted shelves and drawers to fit the Vino 28-bottle that you can buy direct from them here on CS! (See jkorp's last post.) You're not going to find that with a different size/brand.

jkorp, not to get too off topic, but how do you funnel the condensate into your bead pan? I need to do that. I assume this has been discussed elsewhere. Can you direct me to that thread?

Originally Posted by jkorp

I think a desktop would be more work and worry for me. Would I like a temp controlled Aristorat, damn straigh I would. But I'm not shelling out those beans, at this point in my life (3 kids gonna need braces!!!) for that when I can get 3-4 Vinos for a fraction of the price.

I'd LOVE a temp controlled Aristocrat too, but the THC end tables start at $2199 and up, and that's just not in the budget. And that's what got me looking at the just as beautiful, far less expensive, non-temp controlled Aristocrat cabinets in the first place, which brings us back to here!

Originally Posted by jkorp

Oh and by the way, I like the look of my Vino, kind of sexy.

[orca99usa]

I personally don't freeze and I sleep just fine at night.

Same here. Maybe I have just been fortunate, but I haven't had any beetle issues.

My one and only humidor is a desktop, and the only temperature control I have is the thermostat in the house. I keep it around 78 in the summer, and around 68-70 in the winter. Since it is often 115 outside, it would cost the equivalent of the gross national product of Zimbabwe to keep the house at 70 degrees (and I have good insulation).

[blckthree]

Originally Posted by orca99usa

Same here. Maybe I have just been fortunate, but I haven't had any beetle issues.

My one and only humidor is a desktop, and the only temperature control I have is the thermostat in the house. I keep it around 78 in the summer, and around 68-70 in the winter. Since it is often 115 outside, it would cost the equivalent of the gross national product of Zimbabwe to keep the house at 70 degrees (and I have good insulation).

115, but that's dry heat! Isn't that what they always say?

I too have one desktop humidor. I am close to having that filled, or another round of cigar tetris. I have been debating the vinotemp, or another desktop humidor. I havent been concerned about temperature because the house either has on a/c or the furnace 365/24/7.

I am still trying to fool myself, thinking I won't get too close to the edge of the slope and fall off. I have rationalized that one more desktop would get me by. It would let me buy a box or three or more of some of the sticks I like on a regular basis, and leave the second humidor for overflow and 5'ers of this and a couple of that etc.

If I do the Vinotemp, I think that would push me down the slope. I would then want to fill it up. And now we are talking about a lot more than 3 or 4 boxes!

So I sit here fat, dumb, and happy, thinking I am safe from the slope. Knowing I will keep my wife happier with two desktops rather than one large Vino somewhere in the house.

At least it all sounds good, right?

Mike

[jkorp]

Originally Posted by ColdCuts

jkorp, not to get too off topic, but how do you funnel the condensate into your bead pan? I need to do that. I assume this has been discussed elsewhere. Can you direct me to that thread?

This is a good thread Munkey put together:
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=145674

If you have any question with it lmk. My setup has worked pretty darn good for about a year now.

[cubanplz]

This my first post, but ill add to this discussion none the less.

You've already invested hundreds if not thousdands of dollars in fine smokes, why not create the best most stable enviornment for them? All i know is that i spent around 200 dollars on something i can litterally store thousdands of cigars in, which is a sealed system, and can control temp for about the same price a decent 150 count desktop humidor costs.

[tedrodgerscpa]

(flame suit on)

I don't freeze my cigars, as I've been part of a 'blind taste pass' to see if a frozen cigar tastes different from a nonfrozen one.

We passed a total of eight cigars, each in pairs of two. Only one person knew which was frozen, and which one wasnt.

Among the passed sticks were NCs and CCs

I was able to identify the frozen one in three out of four pairs because every time one tasted sort of 'off' to me, thus giving me the hypothesis that freezing can affect the taste of cigars.

Before I would consider this pure science, I'll defend the taste test. Only one person knew which one was frozen, and which one wasn't... the bands were marked with different colored tape.

In full disclosure, a sample size of four pairs (eight total cigars) is not enough to prove it irrefutable. Also, out of the ten guys participating in the blind taste pass, only three of us faired better than 50% correct.

So, bottom line, I don't freeze smokes. Ever.

(flame suit off)


To recapture everything that folks said above, I have too much emotional and financial commitment to my cigars. Beetles would break my heart.


A vinotemp runs 199.99 at Target when they're not on sale. It would be tough finding a quality 200+ stick humidor that retails for less than $200, and that doesn't give you temp control.

Vino is an affordable piece of mind for cigar storage, and is widely supported on these boards.

[jkorp]

Originally Posted by tedrodgerscpa

(flame suit on)

I don't freeze my cigars, as I've been part of a 'blind taste pass' to see if a frozen cigar tastes different from a nonfrozen one.

We passed a total of eight cigars, each in pairs of two. Only one person knew which was frozen, and which one wasnt.

Among the passed sticks were NCs and CCs

I was able to identify the frozen one in three out of four pairs because every time one tasted sort of 'off' to me, thus giving me the hypothesis that freezing can affect the taste of cigars.

Before I would consider this pure science, I'll defend the taste test. Only one person knew which one was frozen, and which one wasn't... the bands were marked with different colored tape.

In full disclosure, a sample size of four pairs (eight total cigars) is not enough to prove it irrefutable. Also, out of the ten guys participating in the blind taste pass, only three of us faired better than 50% correct.

So, bottom line, I don't freeze smokes. Ever.

(flame suit off)


To recapture everything that folks said above, I have too much emotional and financial commitment to my cigars. Beetles would break my heart.


A vinotemp runs 199.99 at Target when they're not on sale. It would be tough finding a quality 200+ stick humidor that retails for less than $200, and that doesn't give you temp control.

Vino is an affordable piece of mind for cigar storage, and is widely supported on these boards.

There are many variables to consider in a test like this, one being, how much time had the thawed cigars been allowed to sit at "normal" temp?

A cigar a week out of the freezer definitely tastes a little off. Give 3 months and I can't taste the difference.

As I said before, temp control keeps eggs from hatching, it won't do anything for beetles or larvae that are already present when you receive the cigars.

I totally agree with you on the Vino, you cannot beat it anyway you look at it. You will not find a 20ish box capacity humidor anywere for the price, period.