Shilala Beads

[Trouthead]

So what effect does air pressure or altitude have on the above descrived process? If one lived in Leadville Colorado at 10000+ ft would the lack of air pressure have some resulting effect on how much the beads take in or give off or how fast? What about Denver 5280, or Salt Lake 4800 ft?

Just curious, and as you know I got a D in both physics and chemistry.

[carterwsu]

Just out of curiousity, what were HCS beads developed for initially?

[shilala]

[quote=Trouthead;1894514]So what effect does air pressure or altitude have on the above descrived process? If one lived in Leadville Colorado at 10000+ ft would the lack of air pressure have some resulting effect on how much the beads take in or give off or how fast? What about Denver 5280, or Salt Lake 4800 ft?[quote]
None whatsoever. Vapor pressure doesn't play into the equation. It's all about covalency (the electrical chage created by the bead's composition and structure).
The beads don't care where they are, they work the same.

Originally Posted by carterwsu

Just out of curiousity, what were HCS beads developed for initially?

They're a dessicant.
Lots of the silica gel bead products were created to gather certain chemicals or vapors from air used in manufacturing processes. They're not all for just gathering water from the air.
That's why there are so many different types and grades and compositions.
HCM beads were designed to scavenge water to an incredibly low RH%age under extreme heat (up to 2000 degrees F, iirc.)
All different dessicants have different properties and performance curves.
I tested all the ones that had curves within our useful range for keeping cigars.
When I saw the curves for the HCM beads I thought it was too good to be true, and I wondered why noone had used them yet. I have a good idea it was because producers were already married to the use of chemicals with the beads. HCM bead's pores are too small to accept denatured alcohols, therefore useless as a "treated" product.
A guy could soak the surface of the beads with propylene glycol, but all that would do is cover the pores via surface tension and ruin the bead's ability to suck water.
You need a larger pore size, and there are silica gel beads that go clean up to 400 angstroms or better. My HCS beads, if I recall correctly, have pores that range from 40 to 200 angstroms. Some pores would fill with Propylene glcol and some wouldn't, leaving the empty pores to do their thing.
Problem is, if too much Propylene Glycol is added to the beads they will be wholly unresponsive due to the fact that the pores that are supposed to be gathering water are covered over by the surface tension of the Propylene glycol.
I've never spoken on this, but that very instance, I suspect, is why sometimes a guy will get unresponsive "treated" beads.
If they're from the bottom of the barrel, they'll be too laden to work properly.
A quick fix would be to clean the surfaces of the beads with alcohol.
I don't know if that'd work because I haven't tried it, nor have I tested the bead's level of deprecation when exposed to alcohol.
I think I'll go do that now.

****This just in...
HCS beads do very little breaking when dumped in 70% isopropyl alcohol. Just tried it.
My guess is if I drew a vacuum on the beads, purged and dried them with nitrogen, and had some isopropyl that wasn't water laden, they wouldn't break at all, or even less than they just did, which was almost zero compared to pouring water on them.

[carterwsu]

Because of the small pore size and covalent charges/dispersion forces, do the HCS/HCM beads attract/retain any aroma molecules. If so, I wonder if it may be beneficial to place them in an enclosed dampened spanish cedar container for a period of time to assist in achieving that desired smell in any type of humidor/coolidor.

Also, is there any difference in using Deionized water, compared to plain distilled water?

[shilala]

Originally Posted by carterwsu

Because of the small pore size and covalent charges/dispersion forces, do the HCS/HCM beads attract/retain any aroma molecules. If so, I wonder if it may be beneficial to place them in an enclosed dampened spanish cedar container for a period of time to assist in achieving that desired smell in any type of humidor/coolidor.

Also, is there any difference in using Deionized water, compared to plain distilled water?

All silica gel beads will gather carbon stinky chains because of the size of their pores.
HCM beads will not, as their pores are 4 angstroms and uniform. The holes are not large enough to let the complex chains in, and as a result do not clog and stink.
To place the beads in a dampened anything is just asking for mold, not to mention it'd be exposing them to so much stink that it'd shorten their usable life dramatically.
Realize that once the stink molecules are fixed to the beads, they're there for good. They don't come back out. Therefore they won't become an aroma sachet like you're thinking. It'll just ruin them.
We're just talking about HCS beads there, by the way, and not HCM beads. As I stated earlier, complex molecular chains can't get in the beads. The holes are to small to receive them.
But if you were to let them sit in a damp anything, they're going to grow mold.
I should probably expand on the "dampened" thing. You should NEVER associate your cigars or beads or with any dampened anything. If it's damp it will grow mold.

On the deionized water, I don't have a clue.
We use distilled water with our beads and in our humidors. I've never had cause to explore deionized water as an alternative, nor will I in the future.
I don't even know where I'd get it if I wanted some.

[chris45set]

Scott, you have said not to place anything damp in the humidor with the beads (I have 1/2 lb in my desktop and 1-1/2 lbs in my small cooler).
I have saved (pack rat that I am) four or five of the cedar sheaths that have wrapped some of my cigars (H. Upmann vintage cameroon comes to mind).
When the RH in my humi drops below about 61%, I dampen two of these sheaths with distilled water, wipe off the excess and place them in the humi in lieu of a shotglass.
Within a couple of days they RH is back to 63-65 and the sheaths are dry.
I also do this in the cooler with four of the same sheaths.
Is this a bad practice? Am I risking a mold infestation?
The cooler especially concerns me as that is my long-term storage facility.
Inquiring minds want to know, and I trust your opinion.

Thanks, Chris

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chris45set

Scott, you have said not to place anything damp in the humidor with the beads (I have 1/2 lb in my desktop and 1-1/2 lbs in my small cooler).
I have saved (pack rat that I am) four or five of the cedar sheaths that have wrapped some of my cigars (H. Upmann vintage cameroon comes to mind).
When the RH in my humi drops below about 61%, I dampen two of these sheaths with distilled water, wipe off the excess and place them in the humi in lieu of a shotglass.
Within a couple of days they RH is back to 63-65 and the sheaths are dry.
I also do this in the cooler with four of the same sheaths.
Is this a bad practice? Am I risking a mold infestation?
The cooler especially concerns me as that is my long-term storage facility.
Inquiring minds want to know, and I trust your opinion.

Thanks, Chris

Hi Chris,
I remarked on setting the beads in a dampened cedar box. Real bad idea.
To set dampened cedar sleeves on a plate and set them in your humi, not a problem at all.
Proximity is the concern. If the beads are setting on something wet, that wet something can't dry out. There is perfect opportunity for conditions to exist where mold will grow.
Same goes with setting dampened sleeves on your cigars. Bad idea.
Just put something that isn't absorbent between the wet sleeves and the absorbent things and you're 100% okay.

[chris45set]

Thanks for the clarification, I tend to get paranoid at times . . .
Also, you descriptions were quite good, you should have been a science teacher.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chris45set

Thanks for the clarification, I tend to get paranoid at times . . .
Also, you descriptions were quite good, you should have been a science teacher.

I don't think I'd make it as a science teacher. Trapped with all those "other people's kids" I'd probably snap somewhere during day two.