Oust fans...Needed or not?

[Richter35]

so basically since moisture rise, if I have 6 levels to my humi I should put 1 fan on the top shelf and 1 on the 2nd shelf pointing down or do you want 1 on the bottom pointing up and 1 on top pointing down?

Not sure if any of this really matter but I figured I wouldnt take any chances! Thanks for the help, guys.

cheers

[crazyhorse67]

you just want good circulation, the best way to figure it out is to put hygros on different levels to see if your setup is doing the job. if not, move things around until they do.

[Snake Hips]

Since when does humidity rise? It diffuses. Oust fans are good for keeping the distribution even, but they're pretty useless if you have a very large humidor, since they move very little air very little of the time. For a cabinet humidor, I would simply distribute your beads evenly, because having a cabinet gives me the impression that you'll be aging cigars, in which case as little air flow as possible is needed. For long-term aging (very long term), low humidity and temperature is the key (in the 50s for both) as well as basically NO air flow or exchange.

[mc2712]

I'm going to get one for the summer its get humid and hot here Houston, to help me regulate the humidity and temp.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by Snake Hips

Since when does humidity rise? It diffuses.

Since the dawn of time. Evaporation wouldn't occur if moisture wasn't lighter than air at the same temperature. Condensation occurs at the top of an enclosed space because that's where the majoprity of the moisture goes.

I know it seems counter intuitive, as air + moisture would seem heavier as there is more matter. When you fly to a a humid climate, your first breath when you get off the plane feels like you're breathing pudding. Although the air is DENSER (not heavier), the moisture doesn't bond with the molecules in the air. Moisture fills in the space between the existing molecules. Air expands as is get warmer, which is why warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

For purposes of explanation, let's just compare H2O with the O2 we breath. Hydrogen is the lightest element with a molecular mass of 1.0079 g/mol. Oxygen has a molecular mass of 16.00 g/mol. Than means that Oxygen is 16 time heaver than Hydrogen. It is easy to see that 2 hydrogen atoms bonded to 1 oxygen atom would be much lighter than 2 oxygen atoms. It's almost half the wieght.

So, just like a helium baloon, moisture will rise because it is lighter. Of course, through the power of osmosis, it will ALSO try to equalize in it's environment as you noted. Just the same, if you pop a helium baloon the helium will also disapate into the air, but will still tend to rise. Just realize that there are fewer variables in a closed system compared to the open air (pressure systems, temperature variations, wind, cosmic rays, etc).

Simply put, if moisture diffused in all directions, then you could put all your humidification in one place. But we all know that you need to spread it to all levels of the cabinet to get consistent rH. Desktop humidors have little height, so they can utilize a central humidifier...but you should still rotate your stock for consistency.


A humidor is a closed system. So long as you stir and mix all the air, you can point you fan(s) anywhere you want. If there is stagnant air, then you will have pockets of high/low humidity. Ideally, you should spread your fans out for maximum effect.


Here's a much more scientific explanation of relative humidity if anyone is interested:

Relative humidity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sofaman]

As far as I am concerned Oust fans just dont push enough air!!! do yourself a favor and use a computer fan with a variable speed switch they push alot more air and you will be happy with the results

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by e-man

Since the dawn of time. Evaporation wouldn't occur if moisture wasn't lighter than air at the same temperature. Condensation occurs at the top of an enclosed space because that's where the majoprity of the moisture goes.

I know it seems counter intuitive, as air + moisture would seem heavier as there is more matter. When you fly to a a humid climate, your first breath when you get off the plane feels like you're breathing pudding. Although the air is DENSER (not heavier), the moisture doesn't bond with the molecules in the air. Moisture fills in the space between the existing molecules. Air expands as is get warmer, which is why warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

For purposes of explanation, let's just compare H2O with the O2 we breath. Hydrogen is the lightest element with a molecular mass of 1.0079 g/mol. Oxygen has a molecular mass of 16.00 g/mol. Than means that Oxygen is 16 time heaver than Hydrogen. It is easy to see that 2 hydrogen atoms bonded to 1 oxygen atom would be much lighter than 2 oxygen atoms. It's almost half the wieght.

So, just like a helium baloon, moisture will rise because it is lighter. Of course, through the power of osmosis, it will ALSO try to equalize in it's environment as you noted. Just the same, if you pop a helium baloon the helium will also disapate into the air, but will still tend to rise. Just realize that there are fewer variables in a closed system compared to the open air (pressure systems, temperature variations, wind, cosmic rays, etc).

Simply put, if moisture diffused in all directions, then you could put all your humidification in one place. But we all know that you need to spread it to all levels of the cabinet to get consistent rH. Desktop humidors have little height, so they can utilize a central humidifier...but you should still rotate your stock for consistency.


A humidor is a closed system. So long as you stir and mix all the air, you can point you fan(s) anywhere you want. If there is stagnant air, then you will have pockets of high/low humidity. Ideally, you should spread your fans out for maximum effect.


Here's a much more scientific explanation of relative humidity if anyone is interested:

Relative humidity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well I never was too good at science, but that sounds good enough to me.

But one thing...there's no osmosis involved

[BigBuddha76]

Originally Posted by Snake Hips

But one thing...there's no osmosis involved

osmosis involves a barrier of some type...he's really referring to diffusion

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by BigBuddha76

osmosis involves a barrier of some type...he's really referring to diffusion

Exactly...specifically a membrane.

[e-man]

great- Now I have to re-take 7th grade science. I guess I paid too much attention to my teachers chest, instead of what she was saying.

Well the point is that a concentration in one area of a solution will ATTEMPT to equalize throughout the entire solution, but other factors may prevent that from happening (eg. gravity). Mechanical agitation is usually enough to overcome these factors.

[Richter35]

Thanks for all the input guys...it was definitely a big help!

I found a great deal on ebay for a lot of 6 Oust fans ($4 a piece) so I just went ahead and got them. Im not exactly sure how much my humidor really needs, but I can put 1 fan on each shelf now If I so chose.

I know these fans arent as strong as a computer fan or something so im thinking 1 per shelf may not be terrible. Is this a good idea or would 6 fans in a (72x24x1 humidor be too much?

Thanks again!
cheers

[e-man]

Originally Posted by Richter35

I know these fans arent as strong as a computer fan or something so im thinking 1 per shelf may not be terrible. Is this a good idea or would 6 fans in a (72x24x1 humidor be too much?

Thanks again!
cheers

Ideally, I would place one at the top facing down, and one at the bottom facing up. That would guarantee that the top and bottom air are exchanging. Then, distribute the remaining fans evenly throughout the cabinet to make sure there are no dead spots. Not sure if this is possible with your setup.

Since you have a cabinet, I assume most of your stuff is in boxes anyway, so one on each shelf shouldn't be a problem. Some would suggest leaving your singles alone. If you're worried about too much wind, put a battery in the first fan, wait 30 seconds, then install the battery in the next fan...repeat. Since they only run for 15 seconds, they won't run at the same time.

If you use 2 hygrometers, you will find out pretty fast if you are getting even humidity at the top and bottom. Adjust as needed.

[RicoPuro]

Originally Posted by e-man

Ideally, I would place one at the top facing down, and one at the bottom facing up. That would guarantee that the top and bottom air are exchanging. Then, distribute the remaining fans evenly throughout the cabinet to make sure there are no dead spots. Not sure if this is possible with your setup.

Since you have a cabinet, I assume most of your stuff is in boxes anyway, so one on each shelf shouldn't be a problem. Some would suggest leaving your singles alone. If you're worried about too much wind, put a battery in the first fan, wait 30 seconds, then install the battery in the next fan...repeat. Since they only run for 15 seconds, they won't run at the same time.

If you use 2 hygrometers, you will find out pretty fast if you are getting even humidity at the top and bottom. Adjust as needed.

I got a large cabinet (tower of Power) with a Hydra Comercial series at the bottom and two out fans in the upper section. Got about 2 lbs of Hearfeld beads distributed evenly in the cabinet. I keep most of my boxes in the upper section. The RH in the bottom is dead-on 65%. The RH in the upper part is about 62%. I am not really panicking about it but I am not sure if I understand the difference in RH given what appears to be a decent set-up.

[Shervin]

I've got my humidor in the center with container holding beads. I figure that over time it will distribute evenly since I don't go into the bottom often, when it begins to fill out a bit more I'll prob add the Oust. The hygro reads 72 cause I was re watering the container that day and it hadn't leveled off yet.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by RicoPuro

I got a large cabinet (tower of Power) with a Hydra Comercial series at the bottom and two out fans in the upper section. Got about 2 lbs of Hearfeld beads distributed evenly in the cabinet. I keep most of my boxes in the upper section. The RH in the bottom is dead-on 65%. The RH in the upper part is about 62%.

Sounds like you're still not getting enough circulation, or your hygrometers aren't calibrated. Make sure you are moving air up and down to get all the levels to equalize. I suggest one fan pointing UP on one side, and one fan pointing DOWN on the other. You can mount one near the top and one near the bottom. Or you could mount both in the middle.

Since you have the Hydra, I would suggest buying the external fan kit for about $10-15. It will move much more air than the Oust fans, and will also run longer. The basic kit consists of a wiring harness, a splitter and a small brushless fan (a.k.a. computer fan).

If you need MORE POWER, you can attach up to 3 external fans to the Hydra kit, AND/OR you can buy bigger fans. A 120mm wide brushless fan moves twice the air as an 80mm fan AND runs quieter because it spins slower. I don't know what size the Hydra fans are, but they look smaller than 80mm wide. You can still use your Oust fans to stir things up.