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New to HF beads...

This is a discussion on New to HF beads... within the Cigar Accessory Discussion forums, part of the The Cigar Lounges at Puff category; Originally Posted by Gdaddy So if I wanted a lower RH why would you add water? If the beads are ...

  
  1. #31

    ZS Reserve Officer


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gdaddy View Post
    So if I wanted a lower RH why would you add water? If the beads are dehydrated they should readily pull out moisture...no?
    Yes, that's the working theory. I'm pretty sure he added water from the bag because all the directions say that to charge your beads you have to spray about 70% of them with distilled water. So he was probably just following directions instead of placing them in an already humid environment to absorb to their default calibrated level.

  2. #32

    Leading Puffer Fish Gdaddy's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by asmartbull View Post
    Don
    Does it really matter ?? The fact is, they work.
    I would address specific questions directly to HF.....I have always received stellar CS .
    In the right hands with the right knowledge they work just fine. However, there are quite a few people who struggle with them especially those who are trying to go lower with the RH. It would seem a more specific instruction sheet could prevent all the confusion but for some reason HF doesn't want to do that. The science behind how they work is also very vague. How they are calibrated is an unsolved mystery. (In contrast HCM technology is very precise)

    I'm just curious...like a cat...(my friends call me whiskers.)

  3. #33

    Elder Puffer Fish Leader huskers's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gdaddy View Post
    In the right hands with the right knowledge they work just fine. However, there are quite a few people who struggle with them especially those who are trying to go lower with the RH. It would seem a more specific instruction sheet could prevent all the confusion but for some reason HF doesn't want to do that. The science behind how they work is also very vague. How they are calibrated is an unsolved mystery. (In contrast HCM technology is very precise)

    I'm just curious...like a cat...(my friends call me whiskers.)
    If you really want the science behind them, I can prolly hook you up.

  4. #34

    Leading Puffer Fish Gdaddy's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by huskers View Post
    If you really want the science behind them, I can prolly hook you up.
    Thank you for the offer. I understand the science behind the 'salt' and how that works. I am curious as to how HF can offer different beads yielding different RH numbers. How can they be calibrated to a specific number?

    IF the HF beads are in fact formulated differently (more or less salt?) to achieve different advertised RH then you are stuck with whatever level you select. They can NOT be 'trained' to a different level? A 65% bead will always go to 65%RH and can't be changed do to it's specific composition? A 70% bead can't go to 65% ?

  5. #35

    Don't Thread On Me asmartbull's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Bingo
    HF beads can not be altered....65 rh will always be 65 rh unless you submerge them and wash off
    all the salt...then are are NFG.....in that aspect they share the same similarities of KL
    An "oath" has no expiration date......

  6. #36

    No longer a community member.


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by asmartbull View Post
    Bingo
    HF beads can not be altered....65 rh will always be 65 rh unless you submerge them and wash off
    all the salt...then are are NFG.....in that aspect they share the same similarities of KL
    Hygroscopy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    Let me tell all of you the reality and truth about all this mumbo jumbo... The reality is Spirits live in the beads and they feed these spirits salt and some spirits like different kinds of salts.. So when they feed them some kinds of salts the spirits consume the moisture quicker because they need some water, but when it gets dry the spirits get sick and they vomit up the water.. I pray to the holy spirit of moisture every night I spit vodka on my g/f and beat her with a chicken the relative humidity of my humidor is well protected with these types of practices... So you want the spirits to find a happy place of equalization... Now all of this isn't commonly known in most circles but I am letting it out about the secret spirits.. If you like you can buy some of my Pelican Spirit Juice for 19.99 which will keep the spirits happy you won't have to beat anyone with a live chicken...
    Last edited by CarnivorousPelican; 04-12-2013 at 02:42 PM.

  7. #37

    Leading Puffer Fish Gdaddy's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    So the beads are 'calibrated' to different levels of RH by the spirits living within each bead.

    That's as good of an explanation as I've heard yet. You might be on to something with that Pelican juice. I'm sure there are some who will swear by it.

  8. #38

    Young Puffer Fish


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    OK I think I got this figured out. I did some reading, specifically as to museum grade silica gel used as a passive buffer to maintain RH. Took some of the beads and put them in a Pyrex measuring cup and stuck them in the microwave for 2 minutes. Took them out and let them cool for a minute. There was a lot of moisture around the inside of the glass, and I just wiped it off. I put the beads in for 3 more cycles, and they ended up solid bright white. I put them in a bag after they cooled and stuck a hygro in with them. This morning they were reading 19%. I took some of the other beads that were up around 70% and mixed the dried beads in and put them back in the bag. After about 4 hours it was reading about 45%.

    So, I was able to get them down from 70%. put a few less dried beads in with the 70% beads and stuck those back in the humidor I have been working with. That should pull the humidity level down - I'll just have to wait and see where it ends up and adjust from there.

    Since I haven't heard from HF, I just started searching the internet. There's a lot of material out there on the subject, and the most useful was when I searched "museum silica gel beads".

    I haven't done much with silica beads in the past, other than throw them away when they came packaged with electronics and such. So I guess I didn't realize there were different grades. Museums use these for smaller displays to moderate the rh, and they can be ordered dry or pre-conditioned to whatever rh you need. Dry can be conditioned easily enough by just placing them in a container and letting them absorb the humidity from another source and monitoring them during the process.

    Now for some the comments above - Salt? If there was salt in the beads, they'd be pretty much worthless - how would the micropores absorb and desorb moisture if they were clogged with salt?

    Anyways I'll provide some the links I found and others can choose to read if they are so inclined...

    http://www.nps.gov/museum/publicatio...gram/01-08.pdf
    Rhapid Pak Non-Indicating Silica Gel Control Paks | Gaylord

  9. #39

    Leading Puffer Fish Gdaddy's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Craig, your saying that one bead can be 'conditioned' to all different RH levels. Others are saying that HF uses a different salt formula for each different RH setting and can NOT be conditioned or changed. Once a 70% bead...always a 70% bead.

    HCM is the one that uses micro pores to absorb and desorb moisture and contains no salt.

    Read here:

    HCM Cigar Beads -- Home Page

  10. #40

    ZS Reserve Officer


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Since when does Silicon Dioxide (silica gel) contain salt compounds?

  11. #41

    No longer a community member.


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by elricfate View Post
    Since when does Silicon Dioxide (silica gel) contain salt compounds?
    Since manufacturers add it to the silica to change the hygroscopic properties of the silica...

  12. #42

    No longer a community member.


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Gdaddy is pushing those beads... but at the same he has educated me alittle on moisture etc.. with some of these debates etc I have sought information... Finding that what he says is correct, and that the "salts" are just used to change the hygroscopic properties of the silica in order to recover faster etc.. Even with salt it is still a buffer and is totally dependent on the environmental relative humidity but am very very curious about boveda which I assume is a saturated salt solution?

    No one read my wikipedia link which tells you why they would add salt...

  13. #43

    King of All Puffer Fish KcJason1's Avatar


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Do yourself a favor and dump the HF beads in the toilet and flush them!
    If you have to ask, It's probably fake!

  14. #44

    No longer a community member.


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Quote Originally Posted by KcJason1 View Post
    Do yourself a favor and dump the HF beads in the toilet and flush them!
    They have a special place in my crapador...

  15. #45

    Young Puffer Fish


     

    Re: New to HF beads...

    Craig, your saying that one bead can be 'conditioned' to all different RH levels.


    I'm not saying it - a number of online vendors are saying it. A number of sites I read offer beads conditioned to whatever rh I want to buy them at. Also, a number of papers I read tell me how to condition beads (and offer equipment) to condition beads to whatever rh I want.

    According to what I have read this type of bead has been used for over 60 years in museums and in conservatory work, and the body of knowledge out there is pretty substantial. Are these 'cigar' bead vendors manufacturing their own special brand of silica beads that nobody in any other industry is breaking down their door to buy? I doubt it...

    If a particular bead holds a particular rh, then why did the beads I microwaved to a desiccated state hold at 19% overnight, and not go to a higher rh?

    Salt formulas? I maybe I'm wrong, but I highly doubt beads are calibrated using salt. Based on what I've read, beads are beads. This particular grade is different than the ones that come in packaging, specifically engineered to this type of application, which is maintaining the rh in a particular microclimate (i.e. humidor, museum display, etc.). I think whoever came up with salts is blowin' smoke...

    In the experimenting I've done in the past few days I'm quite content that I have figured out what I need to do to get the results I want out of these beads... without salt, juice, magic, or bs.

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