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rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

This is a discussion on rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build within the Cigar Accessory Discussion forums, part of the The Cigar Lounges at Puff category; Originally Posted by rtrimbath Right now I have 1 lb. HF beads on the bottom, 1/2 lb. in a media ...

  
  1. #46

    ZS Reserve Officer


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by rtrimbath View Post
    Right now I have 1 lb. HF beads on the bottom, 1/2 lb. in a media bag up top, and 4 2oz. Tubes in each drawer. The 1/2 lb. on top is dry to deal with the extra humidity that rises. Should I wet all of the beads? Or is there something else I may be doing wrong? I doubt a 2% swing is going to hurt anything, but if there's a way to keep it all in balance I'd like to know.
    Well ultimately you have two forces acting in concert. The cooler (if it's on) is using a peltier to cool the air. This causes it to sink. The beads are making the air more humid until they reach equilibrium with the environment around them, the humid air wants to rise. In reality, the cooler air is always going to be a far greater acting factor than the humidity, so keeping a fan in the cooler (or the cooler turned on) to move air is the best way to keep the humidity uniform.

    To be transparent about it, I'd say if you leave the beads up top alone, eventually they're going to reach equilibrium, but that's just forcing the beads on the bottom to work harder to make them that way. I'd just wet both sets until they're 50-60% clear and see what happens. More than likely if there's no air moving, it's going to take more effort on them to be the same (since the volumes and surface area differs from top to bottom).
    View my Wineador build Here!

  2. #47

    Obsessive Puffer rtrimbath's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by elricfate View Post
    To be transparent about it, I'd say if you leave the beads up top alone, eventually they're going to reach equilibrium, but that's just forcing the beads on the bottom to work harder to make them that way. I'd just wet both sets until they're 50-60% clear and see what happens. More than likely if there's no air moving, it's going to take more effort on them to be the same (since the volumes and surface area differs from top to bottom).
    I am going to wet the top beads to see if there's a difference. I have an Oust fan I can add, but because of the tray I have up top it will only fit at the bottom. Not sure if it will help, but I'm going to give it a shot putting it at the bottom to stir the air at least. I'll check on everything in the morning and see if any progress has been made. Thanks for the info @elricfate .

  3. #48

    Obsessive Puffer rtrimbath's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    I bought that Ambient Weather remote sensor hygrometer. I'll post picks and a little review when it arrives.

  4. #49

    Obsessive Puffer rtrimbath's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    I can't seem to stabilize my rh. It is sticking around 64% up top and 61% on bottom. Should I add more beads? I thought 2 lbs. distributed throughout would be plenty.

    Another thing I'm finding odd is both my hygrometers are reading at 68 degrees when the cooler says it is at 65. I've even tried dropping the temp lower just to see if I could get them to drop below 68 degrees but it won't. The fan turns on, the cooler temp reading goes down, but no temp drop on either of my hygrometers. Anyone else have this problem?

  5. #50

    Obsessive Puffer rtrimbath's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    I've gotten the cooler temp to drop to 65 on my hygrometers by turning the temp down to 62. The only real reason I care about the temp is I don't want the cooler that i just bought to be broke.

  6. #51

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    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Well, take the temp on your controller with a grain of salt. Remember that these coolers work on a peltier attached to a heatsink with a fan moving air situation. The ambient temperature in your house is going to affect the temperature inside the cooler. When you set it to 65, it's going to work as best it can to get to that temperature within a set of constraints that a logic controller has set (because it assumes it's already working in a 65ish degree home).

    Setting it lower means you will hit your target temp easier if your ambient temp is higher. I have a Koldfront, and at the highest setting on the temp selector (warmest) it gets down to 64-65 in my home, but I also keep my home at 69 most of the time.
    View my Wineador build Here!

  7. #52

    That belongs in a museum! ProjectSunfire's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by rtrimbath View Post
    I can't seem to stabilize my rh. It is sticking around 64% up top and 61% on bottom. Should I add more beads? I thought 2 lbs. distributed throughout would be plenty.

    Another thing I'm finding odd is both my hygrometers are reading at 68 degrees when the cooler says it is at 65. I've even tried dropping the temp lower just to see if I could get them to drop below 68 degrees but it won't. The fan turns on, the cooler temp reading goes down, but no temp drop on either of my hygrometers. Anyone else have this problem?
    are you positive your hygrometers are calibrated? I have tested mine a few times to see how accurate the temp gauge of the cooler is and it was dead on with both of my digital hygrometers at whatever temp I set it at. or maybe there is something is wrong with the thermo-electric cooler itself?

  8. #53

    Obsessive Puffer rtrimbath's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectSunfire View Post
    are you positive your hygrometers are calibrated? I have tested mine a few times to see how accurate the temp gauge of the cooler is and it was dead on with both of my digital hygrometers at whatever temp I set it at. or maybe there is something is wrong with the thermo-electric cooler itself?
    I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.

    I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.

  9. #54

    ZS Reserve Officer


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by rtrimbath View Post
    I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.

    I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.
    My Ambient weather sensor matches my Hygroset II -- the temp in the back vs the temp up by the glass.

    Also, I tend to mix KL in with mine without any issues. As long as you make sure that the RH is about the same between them there shouldn't be too much fighting.
    View my Wineador build Here!

  10. #55

    That belongs in a museum! ProjectSunfire's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by rtrimbath View Post
    I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.

    I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.
    I doubt the rh would differ that much from front to back in that volume of space. But you never know...not like any of this is exact science lol

    I personally would not mix beads and KL. I do not think that KL will help regulate rh like beads will. I just ordered another pound of beads so I will have 2 1/2 lbs in mine when its set up. I am curious to see what problems I run into with this project. seems some people have no issues an others do. maybe it's because some of us are more neurotic than others

  11. #56

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    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectSunfire View Post
    I do not think that KL will help regulate rh like beads will.
    I'm interested in knowing why you think that. :-)
    View my Wineador build Here!

  12. #57

    That belongs in a museum! ProjectSunfire's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by elricfate View Post
    I'm interested in knowing why you think that. :-)
    I really do not want to turn this into a beads vs KL debate...there seems to be enough of that on here already! I am in no way an expert on the subject and have never tried KL. I only use beads and have always had excellent results to the point that I hardly ever check the rh in any of my humidors. From what I have read & and been told KL does not absorb excessive humidity like beads can. So by mixing them I would just worry that regulating ability to be compromised.

    But I am neurotic and obsessive so you can probably disregard my paranoia haha

  13. #58

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    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectSunfire View Post
    I really do not want to turn this into a beads vs KL debate...there seems to be enough of that on here already! I am in no way an expert on the subject and have never tried KL. I only use beads and have always had excellent results to the point that I hardly ever check the rh in any of my humidors. From what I have read & and been told KL does not absorb excessive humidity like beads can. So by mixing them I would just worry that regulating ability to be compromised.

    But I am neurotic and obsessive so you can probably disregard my paranoia haha
    No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.
    View my Wineador build Here!

  14. #59

    That belongs in a museum! ProjectSunfire's Avatar


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by elricfate View Post
    No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.
    I really, really wish I could just buy a 5 lb bag of litter and not worry about it. I know plenty of people use it with great results. But I would always be bothered by it and I already have enough beads so its not really even an issue. The way I look at it is I have $1000's invested in cigars so spending $100 on beads and not worrying about them is worth it to me

  15. #60

    Puffer Fish with some spikes


     

    Re: rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build

    Quote Originally Posted by elricfate View Post
    No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.
    Actually HCM beads are pretty much the same as the heartfelt beads. The guy that developed them is a member on Puff, not very active anymore, and he explained the differences between the HCM, heartfelts and basically any other silica desiccant. Basically HCM and heartfelt beads are the same thing but HCM beads have smaller pores and aren't treated with alcohol so they have a much higher capacity. The difference is that because of the alcohol treatments that heartfelts beads go through they're pretty much a constant 65% whereas HCM you can change the "set point" around. I won't go into it anymore since it's pretty much hearsay at this point but here's a link to the original thread.

    Shilala Beads

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