Bead RH fluctuations

[Hammerhead]

Hope someone can help with this.

Backgrounder: I have a relatively new R&B 100ct humidor, a Western CaliberIII hygrometer and three 5.5" tubes of Dave's 65% beads which, because of the caps at the end, really have an exposed area of 3.5" in total. The humidor has been in service for about 2 weeks now, and the tubes are located with two on the top tray, one in the lower area.

I seasoned the humidor by leaving it empty with some distilled water in a shallow tupperware dish with a paper towel to wick out the moisture and evaporate it into the interior. This seemed to get the humidor primed for use in about 3 - 4 days, after which I added my cigars.

Now that it's been in service for a few weeks, for some reason, the swings in RH seem to be unusually large. The hygrometer reads around 66% every time I open the lid, but when I check the min/max readings, it's as low as 55% or as high as 72%. I know that the unit is calibrated to +1% based on a salt test, so that leaves me with a range between 54% and 71% over the entire range.

So, here are my questions.

1) Do the beads give off humidity faster or better than they absorb it? If so, would that account for the fact that the low point is farther off from the 65% than the high point?

2) Do I not have enough beads to buffer for the swing? It's a 100ct. humidor, but I have only about twenty or so cigars in there now. Is this a case where I don't have enough beads to buffer the RH, and that when there's a change, the reaction of the beads just can't happen fast enough to keep up?

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Hope someone can help with this.

Backgrounder: I have a relatively new R&B 100ct humidor, a Western CaliberIII hygrometer and three 5.5" tubes of Dave's 65% beads which, because of the caps at the end, really have an exposed area of 3.5" in total. The humidor has been in service for about 2 weeks now, and the tubes are located with two on the top tray, one in the lower area.

I seasoned the humidor by leaving it empty with some distilled water in a shallow tupperware dish with a paper towel to wick out the moisture and evaporate it into the interior. This seemed to get the humidor primed for use in about 3 - 4 days, after which I added my cigars.

Now that it's been in service for a few weeks, for some reason, the swings in RH seem to be unusually large. The hygrometer reads around 66% every time I open the lid, but when I check the min/max readings, it's as low as 55% or as high as 72%. I know that the unit is calibrated to +1% based on a salt test, so that leaves me with a range between 54% and 71% over the entire range.

So, here are my questions.

1) Do the beads desorb humidity faster or better than they absorb? If so, would that account for the fact that the low point is closer to the 65% than the high point?

Yes that has been my experience. Doubt it. Have you reset the min max?

2) Do I not have enough beads to buffer for the swing? It's a 100ct. humidor, but I have only about twenty or so cigars in there now. Is this a case where I don't have enough beads to buffer the RH, and that when there's a change, the reaction of the beads just can't happen fast enough to keep up?

Temperature? Is your humi in a climate controlled environment? Temperature and environmental humididty, can have a huge impact. The swing may happen as you open the humidor. Only active humidification can possibly keep up with an open humi before you will register swings on the hi/low. My guess is that as long as you are always reading 66% you have no worries.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[galaga]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

I wouldn't worry about it.

Very Sage Advice!

[opus]

First, there are other threads here concerning beads.http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthr...umidity+beads. Sounds like enough beads to me. The more cigars (less air space) you have in there the better it will work. The cigars act as buffers and hold humidity longer than air. Mi Reed & Barton humidors drop to the 45-55% range every time I open them, I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

Quote

The hygrometer reads around 66% every time I open the lid, but when I check the min/max readings, it's as low as 55% or as high as 72%. I know that the unit is calibrated to +1% based on a salt test, so that leaves me with a range between 54% and 71% over the entire range.

So, here are my questions.

1) Do the beads desorb humidity faster or better than they absorb? If so, would that account for the fact that the low point is closer to the 65% than the high point?

end quote

Not sure what you are getting at here. 72% is closer to 65% than 55% is. I would just keep it closed as often as possible. Also do not oversaturate the beads when refreshing, I have caused readings 3-4% higher by doing this.

[mels95yj]

Just one question. Did you reset the hygrometer after the humidor was seasoned? The reason I ask is if you were messing with the humi while it was seasoning by opening and closing the lid, the humidity would've been lower. If you left the lid open, while you were adding beads, moving cigars, etc, it would've dropped.

If you can reset the hygrometer, I'd do that now that the humi is seasoned. Start with a blank high/low to see where it is in a week or so. Just my

Mel

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by opusxox

First, there are other threads here concerning beads....
Not sure what you are getting at here. 72% is closer to 65% than55% is. I would just keep it closed as often as possible. Also do not oversaturate the beads when refreshing, I have caused readings 3-4% higher by doing this.

I'm aware of the other threads but they don't address this specific question, so that's why I'm asking. Sorry, you're right. I phrased the illustration about the absorbtion and desorbtion incorrectly. I meant to say that it could be observed the beads take in moisture better than they give it off, which is why the HIGH point is closer to what they're designed for, rather than the low point which is 10% off. I'll go back and edit it if I can.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by mels95yj

Just one question. Did you reset the hygrometer after the humidor was seasoned? The reason I ask is if you were messing with the humi while it was seasoning by opening and closing the lid, the humidity would've been lower. If you left the lid open, while you were adding beads, moving cigars, etc, it would've dropped.

If you can reset the hygrometer, I'd do that now that the humi is seasoned. Start with a blank high/low to see where it is in a week or so. Just my

Mel

Yup. I've reset it a couple times since putting the unit into service. The funny part is that every time I open the lid, it seems spot on, but the recording of high/low points is what concerns me. If all I had was a regular analog hygrometer, nobody would be the wiser.

I understand that the least amount of fluctuation in RH is what's best for cigars, so that's why the 17% delta between the low of 55% and high of 72% is a concern to me. That's a HUGE swing. Plus or minus 5% (60% - 70%) I can live with. This is a bit out of the range.

[galaga]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

I'm aware of the other threads but they don't address this specific question, so that's why I'm asking. Sorry, you're right. I phrased the illustration about the absorbtion and desorbtion incorrectly. I meant to say that it could be observed the beads desorb better than they absorb, which is why the HIGH point is closer to what they're designed for, rather than the low point which is 10% off. I'll go back and edit it if I can.

Try thinking of your humi as being a ice box at 40 F, and the room temp can be either above or below the temp of the Humi. The Humi is not full--the temp is above 40 in the room and you open the box, the warm air spills in, b/c opening the lid creates air movement. You check the temp and it's 40, you close the lid and the temp goes up for say 10 minutes before getiing back to 40 but the max reads 65, Yikes! Just the opposite would happen if the temp was below 40 in the room, the temp goes downto 25 before getting back to 40, taking maybe 25 minutes to do this. The cigars, in this case, act as both a heat/cold sink, but also exclude air from the humi, both things that keep the fluctuations down. The exact same thing applies to the humudity. Odds are, this is what is happening in your humi - take Dave's advice, don't worry about it. Or, get a wireless hydrometer so you can see 24/7 what he humidity & tempurature are. Or, buy more cigars to fill up the humidor, this should help http://auction.smokemag.com/. Do you really think I'm just buying all these cigars b/c I want to smoke or gift them -- nope, I've got to keep the coolerdor full, I don't like temp/humidity flutuations either.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by galaga

The cigars, in this case, act as both a heat/cold sink, but also exclude air from the humi, both things that keep the fluctuations down.

Yeah, I agree that I need more stuff in there to help buffer. Gee, thanks for the link to The Devil, but you're too late. Already have a logon, but truthfully, I just haven't seen anything there that's been worthwhile bidding on in terms of the price. Almost always, "auction fever" takes over and drives the price to a point that just doesn't make sense. I'd rather buy from my local guy, and support a mom&pop business who pay taxes in my area. It's gotta be a pretty spectacular deal on Cigarbid for me to take a jump, and so far, I just haven't seen any.

Anyway, what throws me is that the hygrometer is supposedly set to record high/low in increments of 10 minutes. I never hold the lid on my humidor open for more than a minute or two. Just long enough to get what I want and close it again. So unless I'm just happening to open the lid every time right when the hygrometer records, the cause must be elsewhere, and that's what I'm getting at. I was wondering if this is a case where I just need to add more beads. I have plenty left (bought 1lb of 65% from Dave) but want to be sure I'm not F'n this up...

[Viper139]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Yeah, I agree that I need more stuff in there to help buffer. Gee, thanks for the link to The Devil, but you're too late. Already have a logon, but truthfully, I just haven't seen anything there that's been worthwhile bidding on in terms of the price. Almost always, "auction fever" takes over and drives the price to a point that just doesn't make sense. I'd rather buy from my local guy, and support a mom&pop business who pay taxes in my area. It's gotta be a pretty spectacular deal on Cigarbid for me to take a jump, and so far, I just haven't seen any.

Anyway, what throws me is that the hygrometer is supposedly set to record high/low in increments of 10 minutes. I never hold the lid on my humidor open for more than a minute or two. Just long enough to get what I want and close it again. So unless I'm just happening to open the lid every time right when the hygrometer records, the cause must be elsewhere, and that's what I'm getting at. I was wondering if this is a case where I just need to add more beads. I have plenty left (bought 1lb of 65% from Dave) but want to be sure I'm not F'n this up...

Number one you are not F'n this up. Galaga nailed it I will bet, even though the measurements are in 10 minute intervals does not mean that the 10 minute mark did not happen 1 minute after you were in the humi. The biggest thing is to relax and enjoy your smokes, they are OK.

[galaga]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

So unless I'm just happening to open the lid every time right when the hygrometer records, the cause must be elsewhere, and that's what I'm getting at.

Why do you think that, it takes time for things to re-equilibrate, gases diffusing into solids, it takes time for the hydrometer to read, etc.,... "from the first midnight walk till you hear the baby talk"......


I was wondering if this is a case where I just need to add more beads. I have plenty left (bought 1lb of 65% from Dave) but want to be sure I'm not F'n this up... It won't hurt at all and you'll get faster eauilibration but will it be fast enough to make you feel better....

Three months you'll be in a coolerdor or not smoking as much anyway -- either way it's all good

Are they smoking good or are they not.......

[kenstogie]

I'm sure some has said this but humis take a while to settle in. Sometimes a month even. Also when you start to introduce those cigars in there it messes with the rRH. Of course calibrate or at least check how accurate your Hygrometer.

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

a Western CaliberIII hygrometer

I have this hygrometer and it gives bad readings on high's and low's. It registers correctly until you hit the max/min. Everytime I look at it, it's solid 70 degrees and 67% rh. But hit the max/min, . I've had it say it was 150 degrees and 25% humidity. For the max and 40 degrees and 50% rh for the min??? There is no way!!

Like Dave said, don't worry about it.



NCRM

[Greenwit]

Originally Posted by Viper139

Number one you are not F'n this up. Galaga nailed it I will bet, even though the measurements are in 10 minute intervals does not mean that the 10 minute mark did not happen 1 minute after you were in the humi. The biggest thing is to relax and enjoy your smokes, they are OK.

My experience with the Western Caliber is that it moves very quickly to humidity changes compared to my Radio Shack. It is very possible that when you open up the humidor, humidity drops significantly for a short time and it is recorded by the hygrometer. The humidor recovers but not fast enough to register a low reading on the hygrometer.

[cookieboy364]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

I wouldn't worry about it.

what he said.