Broken Beads?

[earnold25]

Not cracked,although some of them are.

Here's my issue. I keep my RH beads in a tube from wrapped in pantyhose (so the bead dust doesn't fall out everywhere) and it looked like some of them were starting to get brown.

I'm a paranoid kinda guy, so I though it mighta been mold or something, so I tried to "clean" the beads by soaking them in distilled water, and letting them air out. Hopefully to repeat the process once or twice more until no more brown / sticky beads.

After reading an FAQ here somewhere, i later found that this was normal...something about the beads absorbing oils from the cigars. But I digress.

The issue I'm having is the beads appear to have stopped releasing the water (humidity). I have them in a bowl, out in the open for days now. I've even put them outside in the cold. Theres no way any of them should have any moisture left, yet they still do.

Any ideas? Attached is a crappy pic. I'd really hate to have to replace these so soon.

[bobarian]

Mark said in another post that broken beads work just as well. You might try a blow dryer to dry them out a bit.
Let us know how things turn out.

[Scimmia]

Soaking them in water is not a good idea. First off, you may have washed out the chemical that lets them regulate humidity, so that you're just left with silica gel. Silica gel is a great buffer, but it won't regulate to a specific RH. Second is that standard silica gel is pretty slow at releaseing moisture, so it's going to be a while before they get back to a usable moisture content. Stick them in a oven set on low for a bit and see if anything changes. If you have to condition them because of a lack of regulating chemical, talk to shilala, he's been putting together kits to condition silica gel.

[earnold25]

Originally Posted by Scimmia

Soaking them in water is not a good idea. First off, you may have washed out the chemical that lets them regulate humidity, so that you're just left with silica gel. Silica gel is a great buffer, but it won't regulate to a specific RH. Second is that standard silica gel is pretty slow at releaseing moisture, so it's going to be a while before they get back to a usable moisture content. Stick them in a oven set on low for a bit and see if anything changes. If you have to condition them because of a lack of regulating chemical, talk to shilala, he's been putting together kits to condition silica gel.

thanks. i've gone so far as using a hair dryer on them to no avail.

[shilala]

I can throw in my , dunno if it'll help.

First, the cracked bead thing...
Cracked beads still work. Even the pieces that fall off still work.
They do not work as well as uncracked round beads. It's just because their surface area is lessened. Geez, even that's misleading. Let me find a way to say this...
A pile of chips does not work nearly as well as a pile of round beads.
There. That works.

I ran a test on crumbs a couple weeks ago.
Whereas new nice round beads scored (off the top of my head) around 6.6Mrh/sec, bead crumbs scored at 1.4-1.6Mrh/sec.
The only reason for the difference is the lost surface area. Round beads assure air spaces between beads. The transfer of water happens between the air and the surface of the beads. The more surface area, the better the beads can respond.
Chips just leave one surface. The surface of the pile. The airspace between beads is gone.
That's bad for us.

On conditioning (watering) beads...
It's ALWAYS best to set a pan of water in the humi, or better yet, a pan of water with a sponge to wet the beads when it is necessary.
It'll keep the beads from turning into crumbs, and it will protect your investment.
If you want to get real fancy, you can use the polymer gel in a bowl of pan to condition your beads. That way you won't chance a spill.
To get fancier yet, you can use treated polymer gel.
That way you can control your polymer gel's output.
Here's the recipes, but don't tell them to anyone. It's top secret stuff and it will self destruct in ten minutes.
I developed the recipes for my tests because I needed a simple controlled transfer device, blah, blah, blah, science, blah, blah...

60%
12oz. Sodium Nitrate
2.5 oz. Magnesium Chloride
30oz. Distilled Water
4tbs gel crystals

65%
12oz. Sodium Nitrate
30oz. Distilled Water
3tbs. gel crystals

70%
15oz. Propylene Glycol
15oz. Distilled Water
2tbs. Gel Crystals

Last, but not least...
All you need to do to dry your beads is put them in the oven at 120 degrees for a few hours. Let them cool, then put them in a baggie with your hygrometer.
Let them set an hour and check your RH reading. If it's at or above your setpoint, put them back in the oven.
(I should add the disclaimer that I don't know if this will harm the chemical additives in the beads you are using. You should probably ask Dave. This is what I do with untreated beads cause that's how I prepare them for weight tests.)
Then recondition them the way you always have. Unless that's by pouring water on them, cause now you have some other really cool (and scientifically fun) options.

Oh yeah, something I thought of.while I was typing...
Dave's perforated tubes, they're brilliant.
The nasty nuisance pieces will fall out. That's good because otherwise they'd jam up the air spaces between the nice round beads.
It'll allow the remaining beads to keep doing their thing to the best of their ability.
It really is the most ingenious commercially produced application for the beads that I've seen yet.
They're also the perfect size. Once beads get an inch thick, the ones an inch from the surface and further really do nothing. That's not completely true. They really do nothing compared to the top inch of beads. (The buried ones just work between themselves to gain equilibrium, they really do nothing to effect the rh in the humi except keep water available.)
So his tubes do everything imaginable to take full advantage of the bead's ability.
It shows he really did his homework.

[earnold25]

thanks for the info. how long will it typically take the beads to absorb the vapor put off by the distilled water in the dish / sponge?

i'd hate to have to keep my humidifier out of my crappy humidors for long, as they're apparently very leaky. I tend to have to recharge my beads at least every two weeks. (except in my cooler)

...and shilala, scimmia said you have a chemical to recondition the beads if i botched them. i'm assuming this will make "set and forget" again? or am i confused?

[Scimmia]

no, you misunderstood me, conditioning the beads is not the same as the chemical approach. Conditioning them just means bringing them up to an Equilibrium Moisture Content that will keep your RH where you want it to be; they are still only acting as a buffer at that point. This is the approach shilala takes. The RH beads sold by heartfelt/cigarmony are more like silica gel and shilala's conditioning solution rolled into one. Easier to use, but nowhere near as flexible or efficient.

[earnold25]

Originally Posted by Scimmia

no, you misunderstood me, conditioning the beads is not the same as the chemical approach. Conditioning them just means bringing them up to an Equilibrium Moisture Content that will keep your RH where you want it to be; they are still only acting as a buffer at that point. This is the approach shilala takes. The RH beads sold by heartfelt/cigarmony are more like silica gel and shilala's conditioning solution rolled into one. Easier to use, but nowhere near as flexible or efficient.

i still can't quite grasp this concept. I've tried reading through his expansive thread to see if I make sense of it but apparently I'm a bit slow. but let me try and you tell me if I'm close.

so conditioning = setting the beads to your target humidity via vapor loss or gain, whether it be via guessing (dish of water in a tupperware) or by a known humidity amount emitter (gel set to a certain rh %)

chemically treating them so they automatically go back to their target set point doesn't seem to be an option other than from the retailers, right?

[Scimmia]

Yep, you've got it. With them conditioned, you have to keep a closer eye on them, too, as they're only acting as a humidity buffer at that point, same as adding more cigars (except a LOT of them).

[shilala]

Originally Posted by earnold25

thanks for the info. how long will it typically take the beads to absorb the vapor put off by the distilled water in the dish / sponge?

i'd hate to have to keep my humidifier out of my crappy humidors for long, as they're apparently very leaky. I tend to have to recharge my beads at least every two weeks. (except in my cooler)

...and shilala, scimmia said you have a chemical to recondition the beads if i botched them. i'm assuming this will make "set and forget" again? or am i confused?

Scimmia straightened out that one part.
I think the concern was that you may have washed the chemical additive out of your beads.
If that's the case, and I have no way to be sure,(nor do I even know if you can do that) you can still use your beads.
I have a little note that I send with my beads. It explains very simply how to condition them. I can pm it to you if you like. Just drop me a pm and I'll send it to you.

If you are having to add water to your beads every two weeks, you need more beads or you need to plug up the leaks in your humi's.
Odds are that your smokes aren't getting taken care of very well if the RH is always falling off the map.
You can use that real thin sticky back foam weatherstripping that they sell at Lowe's. You could also use a nice tube of silicone in the cracks.
Once you have the leaks managed you could re-evaluate and see how your beads perform, then get some more if need be.

The simple answer to your question "how long..." is "Probably forever if you don't plug up the leaks."
I know that's not a very good answer, but it's the truth. Sorry.