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Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

This is a discussion on Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions within the Cigar Accessory Questions forums, part of the Cigar Accessory Discussion category; Does anyone vacuum seal their boxes? If so so what Vacuum sealers do you use which are best? What thickness ...

  
  1. #1

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    Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Does anyone vacuum seal their boxes? If so so what Vacuum sealers do you use which are best? What thickness and width of bags do you use, 3mil / 15" ?

    Tupperware what are the best tupperware in your opinion which tupperware is best through experience etc?

    What deep freezers are you guys using? I know someone here has a commercial grade deep freeze...


    This is my new procedure want to get some opinions on...

    1. Receive the box vacuum seal freeze -15F for 12-24 hours
    2. Re vacuum seal w/ boveda 62%'s leaving some air in ( is this necessary can I freeze the boveda in the bag? Just vacuum sealing once?)
    3. Store in high capacity wine fridge for 5+ years.

    Doing the same thing for any bundles or loose singles I want to age but storing them in tupperware.

    For vintage cigars that are bought vintage that are already ten years old lets say what are the right temp / humidity for those? I was thinking 55F at 60-62 RH% is what am going to be storing for aging.
    Last edited by CarnivorousPelican; 04-15-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2

    Puffer Fish with some spikes shakinghorizons's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I use a couple containers from the Container Store. They seal incredibly well!

  3. #3

    Maturing Puffer Fish TheGipper's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I would not add a Boveda pack to a vacuum sealed box. What are you trying to accomplish with that? Either the cigars are properly humidified at the point of vacuum sealing or they aren't. And if they aren't then they aren't ready to be vacuum sealed. Get them stable and properly humidified, then vacuum seal.

    Also, don't see the need for storing the vacuum sealed boxes in the wine fridge, unless you're doing that for temperature control. No moisture is going to get in or out of that vacuum sealed pack.

    Be careful when vacuum sealing, don't let the thing run too long before hitting seal. You don't want to crush the box even a little bit, or else you'll end up with crushed cigars. Just enough to take most of the excess air out of the pack is good enough. You don't really need all the air out like you do with perishable food - you're using the vacuum sealer to create a moisture and air impenetrable pack, not to purge all the air out.

    Check your vacuum sealed boxes a couple of week after you first seal them. Sometimes you get a little wrinkle in the seal and they aren't sealed well, and you'll want to re-seal them. You'll be able to tell if they aren't holding their seal, the edges of the pack will be looser.

    You're going to love the results you get from vacuum sealing for long term aging. Almost everything I've sealed for 5-10+ years is coming out fantastic when it's time to open and smoke 'em.

  4. #4

    Maturing Puffer Fish TheGipper's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    To answer your question on which vacuum sealer, I think this is the one I have: FoodSaverŪ V2450 Vacuum Sealer - FSFSSL2450-DTC

    I have been using the standard rolls, which fit almost any size box I want to seal:
    FoodSaverŪ 8

    Although I notice they have some "GameSaver" rolls which they claim keep food fresher longer. Could be better for real long term aging of boxes, or could just be hype: GameSaverŪ 2-pack 11

  5. #5

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    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGipper View Post
    To answer your question on which vacuum sealer, I think this is the one I have: FoodSaverŪ V2450 Vacuum Sealer - FSFSSL2450-DTC

    I have been using the standard rolls, which fit almost any size box I want to seal:
    FoodSaverŪ 8

    Although I notice they have some "GameSaver" rolls which they claim keep food fresher longer. Could be better for real long term aging of boxes, or could just be hype: GameSaverŪ 2-pack 11
    So, you acclimate the box first then vacuum seal, freeze, then store long term? or do you freeze, acclimate, seal.

  6. #6

    Maturing Puffer Fish TheGipper's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I never trust the freezing process to not screw up something with the condition of the sticks, so freeze, acclimate, seal. And depending on the state of the cigars, acclimate can be many months long.

  7. #7

    Don't Thread On Me asmartbull's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    if you are vacuuming to "age" cigars, you will retard the process greatly.
    If you are truly putting boxes away for 15 yrs, wax paper is perfect.
    You NEED a little air exchange.....
    5 yrs really isn't considered "aging" and vacuuming them will only keep them young, given that amount of time
    An "oath" has no expiration date......

  8. #8

    I'm totally serious, dude B-daddy's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I put the cigars in a quart sized ziploc freezer bag. I like to use the Ziploc bags with the wide double ziploc thingy. I slide a straw in and zip the bag, with just the spot where the straw went in "unzipped." I suck out the air until the bag sucks up against the sticks. Then, I squeeze the seal down on the straw and pull out the straw with my teeth, clicking the seal shut just as the staw slides out. I then put the sealed bag and cigars into another ziploc freezer bag and repeat the straw sucking zipping thing. Then, I do it one more time (total of three bags, all sucked and zipped).

    I then put the triple suck-zip-bagged cigars in the refrigerator portion of a Kenmore Model 253 for 6-12 hours. (Sometimes I skip this fridge step.) Then, I put them in the freezer portion of the Kenmore Model 253 for about 48 hours. Then, I put them back in the refrigerator portion of the Kenmore Model 253 for 6-12 hours. I then put the cigars in a wooden humidor (made in China), which contains a small media bag of kitty litter and maintains about 63% rh, for at least a month (preferrably about 3 months). Then, I smoke them bad boys.
    "24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?" -- Steven Wright

  9. #9

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    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Quote Originally Posted by asmartbull View Post
    if you are vacuuming to "age" cigars, you will retard the process greatly.
    If you are truly putting boxes away for 15 yrs, wax paper is perfect.
    You NEED a little air exchange.....
    5 yrs really isn't considered "aging" and vacuuming them will only keep them young, given that amount of time
    5+ years... Which to me I will prob attempt to sell or smoke the boxes in 8-12 years or longer.. These are cigars for investment not really to smoke... It isn't something am going to do to every box of cigars I get... I am only 32... So 15 years nice age

  10. #10

    King of All Puffer Fish KcJason1's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Been the vac seal route... It might crush your boxes.. It could even happen hours later while in the freezer.


    1. Take Syrian wrap and just wrap the hell out of your boxes from both directions.
    2. Place cigars in freezer. 3 days for singles, 5 days for boxes.
    3. Take cigars out and place on the counter for a couple hours to warm up.
    4. Place in humidor.

    It's a simple process, refrigerator steps are not needed!
    If you have to ask, It's probably fake!

  11. #11

    Don't Thread On Me asmartbull's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I guess I am confused...
    Are you vacuum sealing to freeze and prevent critters or aging ?
    I know many the do it to freeze and ZERO to do it for aging.
    If you are planning on keeping these for investments, I would follow the way of the British slow, not stop the aging process.
    That said, vacuum sealed boxes will not be as good as unwrapped boxes in 5 yrs.
    An "oath" has no expiration date......

  12. #12

    Maturing Puffer Fish TheGipper's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Quote Originally Posted by asmartbull View Post
    That said, vacuum sealed boxes will not be as good as unwrapped boxes in 5 yrs.
    Okay. Reasonable people can disagree on that. I certainly do.

  13. #13

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    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    Quote Originally Posted by asmartbull View Post
    I guess I am confused...
    Are you vacuum sealing to freeze and prevent critters or aging ?
    I know many the do it to freeze and ZERO to do it for aging.
    If you are planning on keeping these for investments, I would follow the way of the British slow, not stop the aging process.
    That said, vacuum sealed boxes will not be as good as unwrapped boxes in 5 yrs.
    We are not attempting to stop the aging process but slow it down by stewing it in its own brew with small amount of O2 exchange which should slow the aging process and bring out the flavors more.... My question was whether or not I should reseal it after freezing, but I guess I can wrap it freeze in a commercial freezer -15F then unwrap let it acclimate then vacuum seal ( leaving some air in and sway to the 3 mil plastic ) which I was hoping to get suggestions on commercial freezers like the fridgeair commercial freezer or weston pro 2300 vacuum sealer... I didn't really want to open up a debate on vacuum sealing boxes for long term aging...

    I know there is multiple camps on this those who believe in vacuum sealing other who don't those who believe in wineadors and fridges those who believe in the traditional ways... I believe in technology and science tradition must change after hearing both sides on this I believe vacuum sealing not only slows the aging process but lets it stew in those gases longer in addition to making the boxes off limits...

    Let's say I have a 100+ bottle wineador with boxes that are vacuum sealed well the urge to dip into those sealed boxes is going to be alot less because I cant just open the box it is sealed away then I can also be protected from rapid changes in RH in addition to slowing down the aging process and getting those gases to mix more... Because if am using a compressor system in a large capacity area it is going to have RH changes and possibly condensate etc which I would like to protect against...

    If someone has another reason besides it is going to slow the aging process etc that I shouldn't vacuum seal I would like to hear it but am not going to open sealed boxes just so I can look at my stogies etc... Sealed is sealed.. I will however let sticks that have cedar sleeves air out and remove the cedar I will check those out..

    By the way: I am not trying to start a flame and I respect everyone's opinion on this I just wanted suggestions and opinions which I am not saying one way or another is better I am just stating this method I am going to try and in 8-15 years I will let you know how it works out... I was hoping to get input from people who have been doing this alot alot longer than I who may have some inquisitive knowledge about long term aging methods etc. I am new to aging cigars etc so I am open to anything I always try to keep a open mind on things especially in a hobby that I am less experienced in...
    Last edited by CarnivorousPelican; 04-16-2013 at 01:33 PM.

  14. #14

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    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    At my age you begin to start thinking long term if you want to grow tree's age cigars buy houses etc this is the time to do it late 20's early 30's...

  15. #15

    Maturing Puffer Fish TheGipper's Avatar


     

    Re: Vacuum sealers, tupperware, deep freezer questions

    I was probably where you were about 15 years ago and started vacuum sealing about 12 years ago. Same age-old debate raged on other cigar email lists and message boards back then. I decided to play it both ways and vacuum seal some of my boxes but not others.

    For my tastes, everything coming out of the vacuum sealed boxes is superb. And I now wish I had vacuum sealed everything. But you may find your tastes down the road differ, and you may end up wishing you vacuum sealed nothing. No one here has a crystal ball and only you have your taste buds.

    You make a good point about the "off limits" sense of sealed boxes. That is true - you always are tempted to try a stick from your long-term aging boxes. I find the extra effort of opening a vacuum pack and hauling my vacuum sealer out to re-seal a box is just enough of a hurdle that my long term boxes go untouched until they hit my target date.

    I wish I had vacuum sealed both my boxes of RyJ Hermosos EL. The one non-vacuum sealed box I kept trying a stick every six months or so. And wasted half a box this way when they were awful (from 2004 through 2012). Only recently are they starting to taste fantastic. And I regret that half a box went up in flames in wasted impatience.

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