Prefered RH in Europe?

[adsantos13]

Doing random searches for bits of knowledge in the forums, I always seem to come across BOTL's mentioning that in Europe a lot of collectors, shops, enthusiasts, etc. prefer to store their cigars in the 50% RH range.

The comment always seems to be in response to RH questions like "is my RH too low?". Anyway, I have been looking around the internet for information or confirmation but haven't found much.

Basically, I'm just looking for more information and confirmation of this statement. I did some investigating and tried to keep some cigars in the 50's for a couple months and IMO they smoked great. Of course, I'm leery of storing that low in the longterm though with any significant portion of my stash...

Thanks for any insight and discussion!

[tzaddi]

My friend, if it is more information you are looking for I refer you to a video that has been referenced here on CS before. It is "Manos en el Tobaco" or translated, "The Esssence of the Cuban Cigar" put together by Redstone Pictures.

It features Sr. Alejandro Robaina and last I checked it is available at this link.
http://www.stenzone.com/Movies/TheEs...nCigar-vcd.mpg

I highly recommend you download it if you have the time and HD space. You will want to watch it a few times. It shows about 313.5 MB on my HD.

To your point, towards the end of the movie they make reference to a desktop humidor and mention that it should be kept at 70-75% RH. I realize that this takes the RH in the opposite direction than you are researching but I think this is a valid source.

I hope this thread develops, I would love to see other views supported by reliable source material. Have fun watching the movie. Man they even talk about harvesting the tobacco on the waning moon as the water content of the leaf is at it's lowest...that's what I'm talking about.

—Richard

[adsantos13]

Richard,
Thanks for the response and link. I will def. watch it when I get a moment.

[scrawlmark]

While I'd noticed that tobaccos in Europe were somewhat drier than U.S. packaging of similar products, and that cigars "designed for the European market" seem a bit drier in a few senses, it isn't really the point.

Most B&Ms on either side of the pond keep their display inventory between 50-55% because it smokes better that way.

70-75% humidity is for aging, not for smoking, as a cigar will not age much or at all if the humidity's appreciably below 70%.

But you may have noticed that many heavier and/or smaller cigars are extremely prone to draw problems if not to outright plugging.
Smoke is half water (vapor), and enough of it condenses in the stick to swell the filler and explode a criminally-dry wrapper, and to reduce or plug the draw in a sound stick.

B&Ms are not selling 50-cent sticks that need three to six months of aging before they're worth burning under your nose.
B&Ms are selling $5-20 sticks that were fully aged before the tabacalera put the cello in the box. A B&M gains nothing by keeping the RH at 70%, and may ruin its business by selling enough 70% sticks that, well, plug merely because they were too wet when lit. Cigars kept at 50-55% RH [I]will not[//I] age, but they smoke oodles better than than those that swelled up -- and deposited a lot of wet tars in the head -- because they were lit up at 70%.

I keep my aging boxes at 70-75% and my smokers at 50-65%. Because Cigar Juice tries to hold 70%, I have to use half the puck size recommended for a given box and/or let it run rather a bit drier than filkling it sopping and shaking it out (Book Method).
You watch your gauges, and when they start to fall off, you add a little Cigar Juice to the puck rather than dunking it.
A large, merely-moist puck will do a whole lot better job of regulation than a small, sopping one, anyway.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by scrawlmark

70-75% humidity is for aging, not for smoking, as a cigar will not age much or at all if the humidity's appreciably below 70%.

I think you'll find most collectors do not store or age cigars at anything near 70-75%, but in the low 60's%. There’s no benefit to keeping cigars at 70-75% in the long or short term. Shipping cigars at that humidity just provides a buffer while in transit. Which collectors do you know age cigars at such humidity? The advent of 70% as standard is not universally accepted.

[Scimmia]

Originally Posted by scrawlmark

B&Ms are not selling 50-cent sticks that need three to six months of aging before they're worth burning under your nose.
B&Ms are selling $5-20 sticks that were fully aged before the tabacalera put the cello in the box.

Are you acutally suggesting that cuban cigars don't need any aging? AFAIK, most NC cigars have MUCH more aging time than most CCs get, and it's virtually a universally held belief that they need more time to be really good, ranging from 6 months to 10 years.

[scrawlmark]

Originally Posted by Scimmia

Are you acutally suggesting that cuban cigars don't need any aging? AFAIK, most NC cigars have MUCH more aging time than most CCs get, and it's virtually a universally held belief that they need more time to be really good, ranging from 6 months to 10 years.

I wasn't suggesting anything at all about "CC" (aka ISOM, aka RC) cigars.

I certainly wouldn't suggest anything about "CC" except that there just aren't any in Davenport, IA, now, are there.

Wanna hear something /really/ funny?
The proposed 53 (.13, heh)% tax on cigars is necessarily to be levied only on /legal/ cigars made or coming into the country through /legal/ channels.

Heavens to Murgatroyd, THAT'S IT.
The answer to the new SCHIT tax is to smoke nothing but black-market RC's (aka ISOMs), because THE REVENOOERS CAN'T FIND 'EM.

GLORY HALLELUHAH.

[Teninx]

Originally Posted by scrawlmark

The answer to the new SCHIT tax is to smoke nothing but black-market RC's (aka ISOMs), because THE REVENOOERS CAN'T FIND 'EM.

GLORY HALLELUHAH.

Well. They can't find all of them.

[kenstogie]

I have heard 60% for the European collectors but don't take my word for it let the European Gorillas chime in....

[havana_lover]

the manager at my B&M keeps the humi at 65% his personal one 55%

Me 70% aging 60% to smoke..

[scrawlmark]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I think you'll find most collectors do not store or age cigars at anything near 70-75%, but in the low 60's%. There’s no benefit to keeping cigars at 70-75% in the long or short term. Shipping cigars at that humidity just provides a buffer while in transit. Which collectors do you know age cigars at such humidity? The advent of 70% as standard is not universally accepted.

I'd have thought the purpose of "collecting" cigars would be to not-age them, but rather to keep them in the condition that made them collectible.
To that end, the lower numbers would indeed be preferable.

I had become suspicious of the much-touted 70% in only a few months, when various lonsdales became cantankerous and head-soggy when kept at 70%. Pulling them down to 50-55% in their own humi salvaged most.

[BroNeilson]

Being newer to cigars, (only smoking seriously for around 8months) can't really contribute to this thread, but I've heard that 70 is good for aging because in the lower 60's or under 60 RH cigars loose their oils?

[tfar]

I have been to quite a few of the best cigar stores in Europe in Switzerland, France, Andorra and Germany.

In my experience France keeps them at the most humid level. They do exhibit nice bloom and are very springy. The Casa del Habano in Paris does that, as well as La Civette, Tabac du Dome and Tabac George V.

Andorra and Switzerland keep them just under bloom level. I would guess between 62 and 68. They are still springy, though. This is where I like them, too. I find cigars at that point keep and age very well. My oldest cigars are 10 years aged in my care and I am not sure how old they were before that. I just bought a box of 1998 Punch Black Prince from a reputated shop in Switzerland. They are great.

Germany keeps its cigars driest, as far as I can tell. I guess in the low 60 or high 50s level. They are barely springy but still don't crackle when you hold them. I must admit that I have let my humidors come down to that level. The smokability was still good but this wonderful smell when you open the lid is gone. They do seem to lose their oils when stored under 60%.

My experience is that with a more humid cigar it will go out more often and you have to relight it more often. Draw is hardly influenced, though.

I also like to smoke Cubans a bit wetter and DR a bit drier.

I have heard the English like their cigars on the dry side, too. Which should prove difficult in their climate .

In general, I will agree that higher humidity for storing and around 5-10% less for smoking is good and practiced by a lot of connaisseurs.

Till