Humidor 101

[opus]

Originally Posted by mhotek

Focus on the construction of the exterior. Make sure everything fits cleanly and accurately. I'd call 1/2" Spanish Cedar a bit much, you shouldn't have to go that thick. It's a liner, not the main building material. 1/4" at a minimum and 3/8" at most should get you exactly what you want.

Lining desktop humidors is easy, you cut it to fit snugly, and you do NOT glue it to the exterior wood. This allows it to basically float and shift as the cedar expands without placing stress on the exterior. If it were glued to the exterior, most desktops would eventually blow them selves apart due to the stress points. Don't underestimate just how much force is exerted by a board when it expands by 1/128".

Lining a cabinet is much different since you are dealing with larger areas and the fact that you have horizontal and vertical orientations. So, yes, there is some adhesion that you need to do. The top and bottom are something we usually glue to the exterior, but we use very thin sheets (~1/16") for that lining to reduce the amount of stress it can exert. For the walls, we go as sparingly with the glue as possible. You want the liner to stay in place and not display any gaps to the exterior wood, but you don't want it glued so completely that it doesn't move.

I am worried about wood movement, but need a fairly good seal too. The panel sides and front concern me the most with uneven surfaces to cover with cedar. I wonder if i should build a free standing cedar box (not glued to exterior) built to inside dimensions of cabinet.This would allow plenty of movement. What do you think?

[mhotek]

There are really two ways to seal a hunidor.

Basic mechanical: This is what you see in every desktop. It basically consists of a lip which seats into the lid when closed. Rarely it will be reversed where the lip is in the lid and fits down into the base. (This configuration is one that I hate since it has the potential to crush a cigar.) This type of seal relies on precision in the woodworking. It needs to be just loose enough to allow you to open the lid without requiring a crowbar, but just tight enough so that you don't produce a large gap. When you hit that, this type of seal works primarily due to the fact that in order for air to escape around the seal, it has to move in a way that is very unnatural and only possible if you forced it by blasting a fan directly at the seal.

Weatherstripping: This is the type of seal favored by several cabinet humidor manufacturers. This seal works by relying on the ability for the door to sit flush and have enough closing power on the magnets to draw the door into the weatherstripping to compress it and make the seal. Again, it works as long as you are very precise with your cuts and assembly. There is little room for error in this type of seal, just like in the one above, in order to make it work. If you are using this type of seal, you are going to require rare earth magnets on the closures. The reason is that they produce a very strong magnetic field while still being very small. You are going to need the power in order to draw the door to the carcass to deform the weather stripping enough to create the seal.

I prefer the mechanical seal, which is manifested in a cabinet by constructing the door in such as way that part of it seats inside the carcass of the cabinet. It is straight forward and relies very simply on your wood working skills. In the event that you weren't precise enough, it can always be supplemented with weather stripping + rare earth magnets.

If you go with the weather stripping approach, then you hav exactly one option - very precise wood working with very precise assembly there is no other option and not getting either one right means starting over.

In either case, you are going to want to seriously consider using European style hinges. The reason for this is that after the door is attached, this hinge allows you to adjust the fit up/down as well as in/out.

[opus]

Originally Posted by mhotek

There are really two ways to seal a hunidor.

Basic mechanical: This is what you see in every desktop. It basically consists of a lip which seats into the lid when closed. Rarely it will be reversed where the lip is in the lid and fits down into the base. (This configuration is one that I hate since it has the potential to crush a cigar.) This type of seal relies on precision in the woodworking. It needs to be just loose enough to allow you to open the lid without requiring a crowbar, but just tight enough so that you don't produce a large gap. When you hit that, this type of seal works primarily due to the fact that in order for air to escape around the seal, it has to move in a way that is very unnatural and only possible if you forced it by blasting a fan directly at the seal.

Weatherstripping: This is the type of seal favored by several cabinet humidor manufacturers. This seal works by relying on the ability for the door to sit flush and have enough closing power on the magnets to draw the door into the weatherstripping to compress it and make the seal. Again, it works as long as you are very precise with your cuts and assembly. There is little room for error in this type of seal, just like in the one above, in order to make it work. If you are using this type of seal, you are going to require rare earth magnets on the closures. The reason is that they produce a very strong magnetic field while still being very small. You are going to need the power in order to draw the door to the carcass to deform the weather stripping enough to create the seal.

I prefer the mechanical seal, which is manifested in a cabinet by constructing the door in such as way that part of it seats inside the carcass of the cabinet. It is straight forward and relies very simply on your wood working skills. In the event that you weren't precise enough, it can always be supplemented with weather stripping + rare earth magnets.

If you go with the weather stripping approach, then you hav exactly one option - very precise wood working with very precise assembly there is no other option and not getting either one right means starting over.

In either case, you are going to want to seriously consider using European style hinges. The reason for this is that after the door is attached, this hinge allows you to adjust the fit up/down as well as in/out.

Thanks for your help. I like the idea of the mechanical fit, no manmade materials. Perhaps a double lip arrangement, kinda like a rounded edges tongue and groove seal. then the air would need to make a u-turn to get through. I agree the most important factor will be precise woodworking.

[kenstogie]

I asked in another thread but will post here....
Where is the best place to get Humidor Hardware?? I'm talking the decorative shiny brass stuff with lots of detail...
I know about these but maybe there's others?
lee valley
Rockler
Woodcraft
Horton Brasses

[AAlmeter]

lee valley and rockler are what ive used.

[Old Sailor]

Is there anything used between the glass and the wood to make a good seal?

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Old Sailor

Is there anything used between the glass and the wood to make a good seal?

Sorry, just saw this.

No, I didn't use anything to seal the glass/wood joint. I suppose you could use glazing compound, but that would look like hell. I just made my cuts nice and tight so everything fit together nicely.

A little air circulation is ok, as long as it holds humidity.

[DruLeeParsec]

Well, I'm going to be building myself a humidor soon. I have a woodworking shop where I mainly build musical instruments. But I've done several non-musical projects like jewelery boxes, 4 rocking horses, some basic cabinet work and so on.

Regarding Red Cedar vs. Spanish Cedar and so on we must realize that Spanish Cedar is actually Cedrela odorata which is not actually a cedar but is really a mahogany. True Cedar is from the genus Cedrus rather than Cedrela. I know, it's a total geek thing but as a woodworker you just learn this stuff by osmosis.

EBay is a decent place to find some really nice planks of wood at a decent price. From there a humidor should pretty much be all table saw work. However, I think I'm going to dovetail my boards at the corners just because I like the look (and because I have an Incra Jig).

HOWEVER, Let's not forget that people have done woodworking before 100 years ago. They did it without electricity and therefore without power tools. So if you'd like to get into the woodworking hobby without spending several thousand dollars on power tools then get yourself a solid bench, a couple hand saws, a good chisel set and a couple of hand planes.


These are good chisels. These are what I use

These are NOT good chisels. Notice the price difference.

You can get by with one hand plane. A #4 or #5 will do a great job for you for a long time. Older Stanley or Bailey hand planes are vastly better than the new planes being produced today. You could buy an expensive plane from Lee Valley or you could search EBay. I've never paid more than $65 for a hand plane. My favorite is a #7 Bailey joiner plane with a patent date of 1910. It works perfectly every time.

There's more information than you could ever want to know about hand planes at this site.

There's a real pleasure in working with hand tools. I love the feel of a really sharp chisel or hand plane. Get a combination Japanese water stone and learn to sharpen a blade. It's a skill that will really add a lot to your woodworking experience.

Regarding learning hand woodworking skills Master Woodworker Frank Klaus once told me "Get yourself 4 pine boards each about 3 feet long. Dovetail them together. Your dovetails will look like crap. Cut the dovetails off and do it again. By the time you know how to make dovetails by hand you'll have a nice little box to hold your shoe polish"

Also, working with hand tools have these benefits: It's quieter, It's safer (It's really hard to cut off a hand with a hand plane) and you create shavings, not sawdust so you're not breathing in nasty stuff.

So go have fun and be safe. Get some cheap hardwood like oak and practice making a box with hand tools. (Don't make your humidor from Oak. Oak stinks) Working with hand tools is cheaper and in many ways more rewarding. Power tools are great and I have a lot in my shop, but it's always nice to have that hand tool skill set in your "back pocket" when you need it.

[RHNewfie]

Is this project at an end before it starts if you don't have a table saw?

[AAlmeter]

Nope, man has been building furniture long before electricity. It does, however, take more skill and more patience.

[CigarMonkel]

can we get some pictures of homemade humi's maybe? that would be nice to see everyones finished work or work in progress.