Extreme Aging

[ttam535]

One specific example of a good non-Cuban candidate for aging is most of Avo's Limited Edition cigars. I purchase at least one box of each year's LE's they make, and I have almost a full box left of the Avo 77's released in 2003. These continue to get better & better as the years go by, as do all of the others. In hidsight, I would have purchased 5-6 boxes of the 77's instead of the 2 that I bought. I believe this year's release (Avo Companero LE '09) is going to be up there, and perhaps even better because they are more full-bodied & complex than the 77's. I pulled out & smoked one of the LE '05's overt the weekend on my first year wedding anniversary from the ONLY box I bought, and i am very, very sorry that I only picked up one box. I blew through these way too fast, and there are only 7 left in the box now.

So pick up a box of the Companeros (they come in a box of 10) & stash it away. I guarantee you'll be VERY happy!

[GJProductions]

hmmmm I guess I better find some cigars to age, being 18 I should be able to enjoy one a long time from now. But that is if everything goes according to plan, and I know it won't.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

Ageing a cigar will make it milder and more mellow. Cubans started the idea, because they roll and ship tobacco that is not fully fermented, and you have to finish the process for them. They are using every decent scrap of quality tobacco to satisfy demand. NCs, in general are aged and fermented properly, and are ready to smoke.

Cubans are all fermented completely and "properly" and utilize aged leaf for the filler tobaccos. There is no fermentation left to do once the tobacco is taken from the barns and rolled, and there is no process left for the consumer to "finish." The cigars are completely ready to smoke once shipped. The aging of Habanos is from tradition rather than necessity; it was at one time standard practice to age cigars before smoking them, and the consumer did this at his leisure rather than the manufacturer. The manufacturer blended the tobacco and rolled it, and their job was done - the consumer preferred to control the aging process himself. As this practice tapered off and the modern smoker moved into the "I want it now" cultural midset, the Cubans began to use aged tobaccos in their cigars, making fresh cigars perfectly enjoyable to smoke. The cigars before were fully fermented and perfectly smokable, but often not palatable because of their youth. The difference is that non-Cubans age the tobaccos and sometimes the cigars themselves longer, leaving little if anything for consumer-aging to accomplish, but gaining smokability fresh.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by Snake Hips

Cubans are all fermented completely and "properly" and utilize aged leaf for the filler tobaccos. There is no fermentation left to do once the tobacco is taken from the barns and rolled, and there is no process left for the consumer to "finish."
...
The difference is that non-Cubans age the tobaccos and sometimes the cigars themselves longer, leaving little if anything for consumer-aging to accomplish, but gaining smokability fresh.

+1 here

The biggest difference is that the Cuba sells every leaf, every year, with few exceptions. And, like grapes, the tobacco plant performs differently in different weather conditions. They can have good years or bad years. There's a limited supply to choose from which limits creativity in finishing and blending. Everyone harvests around the same time and they use near identical processes. That gives them a distinct trait in all their products.

Every NC manufacturer has access to tobacco that is aged for several years, or even decades. They can avoid crops from bad years, and seek out specific traits. They can buy tobacco from different countries, with different climates. With the variety of leaves available on the open market, Don Pepin claims he could blend the perfect 100 point cigar if he could just source some Cuban Wrappers.


Aging of cigars is different than fermentation. Fermentation is a process that involves a lot of moisture and generates a lot of heat. Piles of fermenting tobacco can build up enough heat that they spontaneously combust if they are not monitored and re-stacked regularly. The longer tobacco ferments, the darker it gets. Regardless of origin, the manufacturer stops fermentation when they have achieved the desired color and traits. The tobacco leaves are hung and allowed to CURE which stabilizes the decomposition of the leaf. If a cigar continued to "ferment" as it got older, it would continue to breakdown and get darker, until it became a pile of compost. Maduro and Oscuro leaves are darker because they ferment longer, but you can have a 50 year old cigar that is still very light colored.

For NC tobacco, the finished leaves are processed and packed into bales that are often aged for years to add value. As it sits, that bale of aged tobacco isn't marrying with other varieties...all the leaves are from the same crop.

Cubans have a different trait because they BLEND young tobaccos together in a cigar and let them marry at a younger age. Since the tobacco is fresh, they're still releasing ammonia, so they're not really ready to smoke (but that doesn't stop some people). As such, they improve greatly in a year or two. This is why they are said to age better.

Although leaves also marry in NC cigars, they go through the process at different point in time, and it yields different results. If you have "off" flavors in a Cuban cigar, they will probably fade with a little time. If you have off flavors in a cigar made from aged tobacco, a little more time isn't going to make much difference. That's why people say NC's don't age as well, if at all.

Of course, the other major difference is that the Cuban climate produces different results due to the size and location of the island. Most countries grow Cuban seed tobacco, so the strains are not very unique.

[Aaron871]

e-man,

Thank you for an outstanding post.
Is it fair to say, that if I bought a box of CC's I should let them age a minimum of 2 years?

[e-man]

Originally Posted by Aaron871

e-man,

Thank you for an outstanding post.
Is it fair to say, that if I bought a box of CC's I should let them age a minimum of 2 years?

It's all subjective. It depends upon they strength of the stick you buy, how old they are when you get them, and your own personal preference.

Since you probably aren't familiar with whatever you will be buying, then I would wait at least 6 months to a year before trying one. Then, wait another 6 months to try another and see how it has changed. Only you will know when they reach that "sweet spot" for you personal preference. Of course, you risk smoking one or more sticks before their prime.

If you can wait 2 years before sparking one up, then I see no problem with that either. They should be great after 2 years, with the potential to get better with more age. But, what if you really prefer them at 1 year?

Once you get the box, I suggest making a new post to ask other members their experiences with that specific stick. Ask them how long they prefer to age them, and what they like about them at that age. It should help you decide how long until they are perfect for your tastes.

[DaReallyPoGigolo]

I thought this might be relevant to this thread, a friend told me that a good rule of thumb is that you shouldn't age a cigar more than 9 years, otherwise it would mellow out so much that it would lose a good portion of it's original, enjoyable, flavor. Is there any truth to this? Or is it so different from stick to stick that you couldn't really hold that rule solid? Or is it simply a matter of preference?

[Phantom57]

Originally Posted by Snake Hips

Cubans are all fermented completely and "properly" and utilize aged leaf for the filler tobaccos. There is no fermentation left to do once the tobacco is taken from the barns and rolled, and there is no process left for the consumer to "finish." The cigars are completely ready to smoke once shipped. The aging of Habanos is from tradition rather than necessity; it was at one time standard practice to age cigars before smoking them, and the consumer did this at his leisure rather than the manufacturer. The manufacturer blended the tobacco and rolled it, and their job was done - the consumer preferred to control the aging process himself. As this practice tapered off and the modern smoker moved into the "I want it now" cultural midset, the Cubans began to use aged tobaccos in their cigars, making fresh cigars perfectly enjoyable to smoke. The cigars before were fully fermented and perfectly smokable, but often not palatable because of their youth. The difference is that non-Cubans age the tobaccos and sometimes the cigars themselves longer, leaving little if anything for consumer-aging to accomplish, but gaining smokability fresh.

When you buy a box of Cubans and they smell like ammonia, the fermenting process was cut short. Not palatable because of "youth" pretty much indicates that. Some Cubans nowadays are ready to smoke, and some aren't.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

When you buy a box of Cubans and they smell like ammonia, the fermenting process was cut short. Not palatable because of "youth" pretty much indicates that. Some Cubans nowadays are ready to smoke, and some aren't.

Fermentation is NOT cut short in Cuban tobacco.

If the leaves are the desired color, then they are done fermenting. PERIOD. If you want them darker, then ferment them longer. Most people think of Connecticut wrappers a pale and mild. However, most maduro wrappers are also made from Connecticut's. You ferment the leaves as long as needed to create the desired color and corresponding flavors.

There is no significant difference in the fermentation process between Cubans and Non-Cubans. Cuban tobacco is not AGED very long before being rolled, and the cigars are not allowed to REST very long before shipping. They manufacture and sell everything the same year because the product is in high demand.

Yes, Cubans typically emit ammonia. But that ammonia was created DURING the fermentation process. It DOES NOT emit ammonia because fermentation was "cut short".

Fermentation is the process of micro-organisms breaking down the leaves. When Plant or animal tissue decomposes, it produces ammonia. When you stack a bunch of fresh leaves together, they have enough moisture to support micro-organism populations. These break down the plant matter, as they are using it as a food source. They create heat which can caramelize sugars.

If you separate the leaves, they will dry out and the micro-organisms die off. This is called CURING the tobacco. It means that the leaves have been stabilized and have stopped decomposing. You can safely stack cured leaves together in a bale. They will not ferment again because there isn't enough moisture to support the micro-organisms. Cigars are made from cured tobacco, so they do not ferment any further either.

Even though fermentation has ceased, ammonia is still present inside the leaf. It takes time for that ammonia to dissipate from the cured tobacco. NC producers usually age the tobacco and/or cigars for you because the have enough product on hand to do so, without impacting sales. That doesn't mean that you'll never get a young NC that emits ammonia, but it is far less common.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by DaReallyPoGigolo

I thought this might be relevant to this thread, a friend told me that a good rule of thumb is that you shouldn't age a cigar more than 9 years, otherwise it would mellow out so much that it would lose a good portion of it's original, enjoyable, flavor. Is there any truth to this? Or is it so different from stick to stick that you couldn't really hold that rule solid? Or is it simply a matter of preference?

For non-Cubans that's a pretty good rule of thumb, though it does vary a little stick-to-stick and with personal preference. Habanos though can be very tasty and strong into their 40th year and sometimes beyond.

Originally Posted by Phantom57

When you buy a box of Cubans and they smell like ammonia, the fermenting process was cut short. Not palatable because of "youth" pretty much indicates that. Some Cubans nowadays are ready to smoke, and some aren't.

No, it wasn't. Like I said in my previous post, Cuban tobacco is fermented completely and properly and never cut short. If the leaves were improperly fermented then they would be the wrong color and the cigars would at no point in their lives be smokable with any amount of aging. The ammoniac smell and taste associated with young cigars in the past is from when the leaves were fermenting. The ammonia continues to escape because the tobacco hasn't been pre-aged to the extent that non-Cuban tobacco has, not because the fermentation was cut short.

[Nurse_Maduro]

Originally Posted by madurolover

...not all cigars will get [Plume] no matter the age and conditions.

I didn't know that...cool.
The school of thought is that after 10 years or so, the tobacco has gone through all the synthesis that it can. Not that it will necessarily get any worse, just that it won't get any better.

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by Nurse_Maduro

I didn't know that...cool.
The school of thought is that after 10 years or so, the tobacco has gone through all the synthesis that it can. Not that it will necessarily get any worse, just that it won't get any better.

That's not necessarily true John. There are cigars out there that are a lot older than that and they just continue to get better as the years pass.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by madurolover

That's not necessarily true John. There are cigars out there that are a lot older than that and they just continue to get better as the years pass.

The general consensus is that Non-Cuban cigars will peak around 10 years, but I've never kept any that long to know first hand. Of course, there are always exceptions, and some will perform better than others. Some tobacco is aged longer than 10 years before it is ever rolled into cigars. For example, the RP Vintage 1990 has a 12 year old wrapper, and will taste better with another year or two in the humidor.

Originally Posted by madurolover

...not all cigars will get [Plume] no matter the age and conditions.

Also, plume, in and of itself, doesn't make a cigar any better. It's simply an INDICATOR of an oily wrapper, that has spent some time under good conditions. You can wipe all the plume off of a cigar, and it won't reduce the quality or flavor at all.

A cheap cigar with lots of oils can have plume and still taste awful and burn unevenly.

Conversely, I could give my brother a premium cigar with plume all over it. If he doesn't continue to take good care of it, it can become nasty and un-smokable, yet still be covered in plume.

[GrtndpwrflOZ]

Originally Posted by madurolover

That's not necessarily true John. There are cigars out there that are a lot older than that and they just continue to get better as the years pass.

How true my Brother....
10 years. That's 2000 Pretty new.
Personally for aged stuff
DAVIDOFFs from the 80's baby......Ummmmmmmm tasty...It's the price that kills me.
So if anyone wants some new production, just send me your vintage 80s Davis and I'll send you some new production (for aging of course).

I am kidding gentlemen.
I love new and old

[Mitch]

I have heard that if you age the Padron non-anniversary which are around 5 a piece for 5 years, they will taste just like the Padron Anniversary. THey are the same tobacco, but the anniversary are aged more.