Is the amount of a certain cigar finite?

[piperdown]

Not the gospel but maybe a guess on consistency...I grew up on a farm in an area that raises Green Giant corn and barley for beer. The crops are fairly consistant because the climate (over time) stays fairly consistant and the soil, if treated the same, stays the same and the plants themselves are carefully selected. This essentially means you'll get a mostly consistant product from year to year.
The wine industry is not a good example of that but still has the ability to crank out a fairly consistant product year after year with some years being outstanding (vintage).
Bottom line...if you grow in the same field, treat the field the same year to year, plant the same strain, harvest at the same time and treat the plant the same for processing (controlled environments for the most part) you're going to get a consistent product with only slight variations.
A few years from now we might be discussing how the '09 Oliva V was an outstanding year for the V.

[Jimbo57]

Originally Posted by veteranvmb

Now that we talked about this, I need to buy several hundred more r.p. vintage 90 churchills to insure my supply of them. I think like 1500 would always insure me of a 3 year supply.
Would that be good for you Gary, JIC of you know what? LOL

Much regards Jerry

Spoken like a true BOTL. Sounds like a plan to me, Jerry.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by veteranvmb

Now that we talked about this, I need to buy several hundred more r.p. vintage 90 churchills to insure my supply of them. I think like 1500 would always insure me of a 3 year supply.
Would that be good for you Gary, JIC of you know what? LOL

Much regards Jerry

Between RP and Rosarios I think we will be fine,,,but ya never know and I usually always have Plan B.

[veteranvmb]

Originally Posted by piperdown

Not the gospel but maybe a guess on consistency...I grew up on a farm in an area that raises Green Giant corn and barley for beer. The crops are fairly consistant because the climate (over time) stays fairly consistant and the soil, if treated the same, stays the same and the plants themselves are carefully selected. This essentially means you'll get a mostly consistant product from year to year.
The wine industry is not a good example of that but still has the ability to crank out a fairly consistant product year after year with some years being outstanding (vintage).
Bottom line...if you grow in the same field, treat the field the same year to year, plant the same strain, harvest at the same time and treat the plant the same for processing (controlled environments for the most part) you're going to get a consistent product with only slight variations.
A few years from now we might be discussing how the '09 Oliva V was an outstanding year for the V.

Great post , not being a farmer(I wish I was) it all makes sense. But you cannot control the climate. I guess thats why most whiskeys are blended to create the same flavor. Much like orangejuice. is.

Speaking of Barley. Heres a bit of knowledge. The word gladiator in its original sense translated to Barley Eater.
Barley is packed with vitamins and excellent sort of nutrition and was the staple food for gladiators. (aka barley eaters).

Much regards Jerry

[e-man]

Originally Posted by piperdown

The wine industry is not a good example of that but still has the ability to crank out a fairly consistant product year after year with some years being outstanding (vintage).
Bottom line...if you grow in the same field, treat the field the same year to year, plant the same strain, harvest at the same time and treat the plant the same for processing (controlled environments for the most part) you're going to get a consistent product with only slight variations.

The French ferment the grapes as is, creating huge variances from year to year. California law allows the vintner to adjust sugar and acids for consistency. HOWEVER, they must use only grape juice to adjust the sugar content...acids can be added at will. Table sugar would give the exact same result but is outlawed for whatever reason. I'm sure other regions in the world have their own rules.

I know that cigar blends do change over time. If you read some posts, people will talk about how great this cigar used to be before they re-blended, or how this cigar reminds them of some other cigar that has since re-formulated.


There's one thing I never understood about the RP Vintages. RP vintage 1990 has 12 year old tobacco. That would imply that all the cigars were made in 2002...but I somehow doubt that. Either the crop is from 1990, or the tobacco is 12 years old...it can't be both. I'm betting that 1990 is now just the name of the cigar, like Padilla 1964, or Torono 1959. Surely, the line was launched in 2002 with 12 year old tobacco. You can contract a farmer to plant a specific strain, with specific care and feeding instruction and get a fairly consistent result.


Another thing that makes no sense. The Vintage Fusion is supposedly a blend of the Vintage 1990 and the Vintage 1992. It's available in nautral or maduro, and they claim the wrapper is the only difference. Yet, the filler appears to be a lighter color in the natural and darker in the maduo. That would imply that they are using different tobacco for each line, that has been fermented for different lengths of time to give different colors, which would change the flavor. How can they be the same blend? I've noticed the same thing with virtually all cigar lines that offer natural and maduro wrappers.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by e-man

There's one thing I never understood about the RP Vintages. RP vintage 1990 has 12 year old tobacco. That would imply that all the cigars were made in 2002...but I somehow doubt that. Either the crop is from 1990, or the tobacco is 12 years old...it can't be both. I'm betting that 1990 is now just the name of the cigar, like Padilla 1964, or Torono 1959. Surely, the line was launched in 2002 with 12 year old tobacco. You can contract a farmer to plant a specific strain, with specific care and feeding instruction and get a fairly consistent result.

It is the Honduran Broadleaf Wrapper that is 12 years old and then the filler and binder is 5 years old. Like Jerry was alluding to earlier is how Rocky is able to keep this line of cigars consistant year after year. There is confusion as to when the blend was first started because Rocky didn't even start this business until 2002 so there is a backstory in how the Vintage line came about and I am still looking at that. His history is well documented before he got into the cigar biz and it's about his connections within the community that get him his consistant lines of tobacco and wrappers.

This was taken from a past issue from Smoke Magazine where Rocky explains in some detail as to how he gets the consistancy from his line of cigars:

PATEL: The quality of the tobacco is so important that we check the fertility of the soil at the farms from season to season to guarantee consistency and quality. This way the only quality issue we don’t control is mother nature. We also use the “calfrista” system to regulate the humidity and temperature of the leaves to a very precise level. This allows us to control the curing of the leaves and get 30 to 40 percent more wrapper out of the crop. When we receive the tobacco from the farms we separate the leaves into primings - mild, medium and strong like most cigar makers, but we also separate by thickness: thin, medium and thick. This ensures consistency because we’re using the same tobacco and leaf sizes from the same farms. We’re trying to control absolutely everything we can within the confines of a hand made product.

[piperdown]

Originally Posted by veteranvmb

Great post , not being a farmer(I wish I was) it all makes sense. But you cannot control the climate. I guess thats why most whiskeys are blended to create the same flavor. Much like orangejuice. is.

Speaking of Barley. Heres a bit of knowledge. The word gladiator in its original sense translated to Barley Eater.
Barley is packed with vitamins and excellent sort of nutrition and was the staple food for gladiators. (aka barley eaters).

Much regards Jerry

Being a farmer is overrated! I never want to get up at 5 am again to move siphon tubes, gated pipe or sprinkler lines again, not to mention picking rock, hoping for clear weather (but not too much sun), water shortages (arid West US), worrying about protein content in barley, aphids or other insects, harvesting the right time and etc...then ending the day after dark working on equipment...it's hard, hard, hard work, all for very little pay or appreciation.

Back on topic....my dad and I used to pull soil samples randomly from the fields and have them anaylized by a soil lab, sometimes the county extension lab, for all kinds of items, such as mineral content, nitrogen, pH, etc. We then added fertilizer to bring anything deficient (or to counteract soil conditions) up to what the optimum levels should be. I can guarentee any agricultural product that's sold as specialty items (or large scale) has a rigourous QC/QA program. No, you can't account for the climate being the same year to year but on average it works out with enough consistency to bring the same crop in year to year. So you will get some years where everything works out great and you have a fantastic crop. Other years you're going to get the same consistency out of the field and that, I think, is what most companies strive for.

In the end stock up on what you like and like what you smoke! That is some of the best wisdom I've gotten from this outstanding, generous, and friendly bunch.

[Phantom57]

There is a lot of misrepresentation in the cigar industry. Many times a dated cigar just means the year it was introduced. Sometimes it just commemorates the birthday of some obscure loved one in the producing family. Sometimes the name of a cigar is the age of their dog, or a number on a football jersey, and that's the truth. You just have to use common sense.

[Nitrosportman]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

There is a lot of misrepresentation in the cigar industry. Many times a dated cigar just means the year it was introduced. Sometimes it just commemorates the birthday of some obscure loved one in the producing family. Sometimes the name of a cigar is the age of their dog, or a number on a football jersey, and that's the truth. You just have to use common sense.

no! i know my padron 1926's were made in 1926



seriously though i can't believe you used the "S" word im pretty sure you can go to jail nowdays for that...

and +1 buy what "you" like

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

There is a lot of misrepresentation in the cigar industry. Many times a dated cigar just means the year it was introduced. Sometimes it just commemorates the birthday of some obscure loved one in the producing family. Sometimes the name of a cigar is the age of their dog, or a number on a football jersey, and that's the truth. You just have to use common sense.

Very true in that most of the good manufacturers will put that information out there and some "muddy" the information down so much you dont know if it was their grandmothers B'Day or the date the cigars were actually made and put into circulation. Seriously, how hard is it to say "Our cigars were grown and harvested on such and such a date then they were put into circulation on this date. The wrapper is on this date,,etc etc." They can do this with beer and meat so I don't see why they can't do this with tobacco for the consumer. God knows they do this as they are curing their tobacco and keep almost perfect records on it then. Did they lose all that information once it was rolled into a cigar?