Is the amount of a certain cigar finite?

[veteranvmb]

Question. If a cigar such as an rp vintage 90 is made from a certain crop of tobacco. In this case I cant remember but rocky says its from a crop that was seven eyars old or something, and this was his first cigar produced.

So then when that crop of tobacco has been exhausted there can no longer a r.p. 90.

I cant figure this out, because he sells an awfull lot, and the amount of acres planted and harvested in my calculations should have been used up a long time ago.

Fill me in. Much regards Jerry

[Cigary]

Good question there Jerry,,,I talked with a Rep. about this question and this is what I got from them:

I have a question on the RP line of 90 Vintage cigars
Jim K. says:
Ok, What is your question?
Gary says:
from what I read on this line of cigars has it approached the end of the line as far as exhausting the amount of tobacco ,,,is there still some left to keep manufacturing?
Jim K. says:
THere is still a little of the tabacco left so short term they will be available, but long term they will eventually be discvontinued
Gary says:
so some is still being harvested at this time?
Jim K. says:
that is correct

Interesting in that this process started back in 1990 and 20 years later they are still harvesting this same crop. Rocky started with a 12 year old Honduran broadleaf wrapper mixed with 5 year old filler and binder for this cigar and to fathom that this cigar has still not run its course. The cigar industry never ceases to amaze me how they are able to grow and manufacture enough tobacco for a certain line of cigars and be able to get enough out there for the masses,,,,,yet a cigar like the Opus X wasn't able to be produced like this,,,or was it? So many questions about the process and how manufacturers deal with how much to grow of a certain tobacco?

[madurolover]

The wrapper is the only leaf from '90 (if that is even true anymore). I would imagine a whole field of tobacco would produce a looooootttttttt of wrapper leaves.

[carterwsu]

Originally Posted by Cigary

Good question there Jerry,,,I talked with a Rep. about this question and this is what I got from them:

I have a question on the RP line of 90 Vintage cigars
Jim K. says:
Ok, What is your question?
Gary says:
from what I read on this line of cigars has it approached the end of the line as far as exhausting the amount of tobacco ,,,is there still some left to keep manufacturing?
Jim K. says:
THere is still a little of the tabacco left so short term they will be available, but long term they will eventually be discvontinued
Gary says:
so some is still being harvested at this time?
Jim K. says:
that is correct

Interesting in that this process started back in 1990 and 20 years later they are still harvesting this same crop. Rocky started with a 12 year old Honduran broadleaf wrapper mixed with 5 year old filler and binder for this cigar and to fathom that this cigar has still not run its course. The cigar industry never ceases to amaze me how they are able to grow and manufacture enough tobacco for a certain line of cigars and be able to get enough out there for the masses,,,,,yet a cigar like the Opus X wasn't able to be produced like this,,,or was it? So many questions about the process and how manufacturers deal with how much to grow of a certain tobacco?

+1 RG for great info

[veteranvmb]

Thanks Gary for the response. It seem like a lot of hooey to me. I dont belive they are telling us the truth on these matters. They had no idea when they produced this first rp cigar it would be in great demand. I dont believe they planted enough acreage.I think as long as their is a demand for this cigar there will be a miracle of tobacco wrappers still available.
I mean, its not like the usda. We are tlaking abaout a foreign produced product, and they can just about say anything they want. There is no way of testing the age of tobacco to any great extent, and no overseers of the production by independent observers.
So, in my mind at this point, I dont believe it. Its still a great cigar, and they have managed to keep it consistent with the blend, but from the original crop, no way Jose IMHO

Much regards Jerry

[Cigary]

I hear ya Jerry,,,that is why I still have questions about the industry as a whole. When there is all this talk about how "rare" a certain tobacco is and they can still manufacture it all these years later baffles me. It's almost as if they knew 20 years ago how much to grow and how popular the tobacco was going to be. It's hard not to be cynical about certain things when it defies the imagination as to how much tobacco they must be hoarding for a line like the RP Vintage,,,,and then you start letting your imagination go with all of the different lines of cigars they have and to store that much tobacco for years before they eventually start producing the cigars themselves.

[Sigarz]

I dont really have any facts to share but I have an opinion about this matter that might be of help. I think the dates are perhaps arbitrary or are the year of the first harvested tobacco used in the line. anyway. what they do specify is the age of the tobacco used, I assume they have enough tobacco crop each year for a years supply of that particular vintage and they also plant a new crop that year so the following year the second vintage is then aged the correct amount of time for the next year. I hope that makes sense...? just my c:

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I hear ya Jerry,,,that is why I still have questions about the industry as a whole. When there is all this talk about how "rare" a certain tobacco is and they can still manufacture it all these years later baffles me. It's almost as if they knew 20 years ago how much to grow and how popular the tobacco was going to be. It's hard not to be cynical about certain things when it defies the imagination as to how much tobacco they must be hoarding for a line like the RP Vintage,,,,and then you start letting your imagination go with all of the different lines of cigars they have and to store that much tobacco for years before they eventually start producing the cigars themselves.

I think "rarity" of any certain tobacco is in relation to its availability. There may be a certain "rare" tobacco used in a cigar, but the thing is they grow that tobacco every season, just in low quantities (because of the fragility of the strain, perhaps, which makes it costly to grow), which maintains its rare status while being available every year for cigars. But yes, there are many, many aspects of cigar marketing to be cynical about, particularly in regards to claims of finite tobacco quantities, such as the Rocky Patel cigars in question. I would think he would work it like the Partagas 150/160/170 to make it believable.

[Cigary]

[QUOTE=Snake Hips;2726117]I think "rarity" of any certain tobacco is in relation to its availability. There may be a certain "rare" tobacco used in a cigar, but the thing is they grow that tobacco every season, just in low quantities (because of the fragility of the strain, perhaps, which makes it costly to grow), which maintains its rare status while being available every year for cigars. But yes, there are many, many aspects of cigar marketing to be cynical about, particularly in regards to claims of finite tobacco quantities, such as the Rocky Patel cigars in question. I would think he would work it like the Partagas 150/160/170 to make it believable.[/QUOTE]

My thought's exactly on this which is why when the Rep answered my question on this particular tobacco Vintage he's telling me that they are still working off the same tobacco crop,,,,so how is it 20 years later they are still able to do that? He never said that they grow this "strain" of tobacco every year so as to keep up with this Vintage crop. I have been researching this subject matter for a couple of years now and it's kind of a fleeting answer. Even when I talk with Reps and knowledgeable people in the business they tend to double talk about how all of these "rare" tobaccos are always plentiful.

[veteranvmb]

[I talk with Reps and knowledgeable people in the business they tend to double talk about how all of these "rare" tobaccos are always plentiful.[/QUOTE]

I should speak with one about the age and rarity of the tobaccos. If they want to talk age, I have a blister on my big toe(the captain of the ship) thats 38 years old. Now thats vintage........

Jerry

[duckmanco]

I have heard/seen Rocky state in video interviews (can't remember where or I would post) but I believe he stated that the wrapper is 12 years and 10 years old, the cigar just happened to come out at 10 and 12 years respectively from when the wrapper was 1st harvested. So basically, the wrappers are not 20 something years old and never were, they were originally harvested in '90 and '92.

If you ask me, its still misleading as hell and I frown on it, especially for new smokers. But then again, truth in advertising and even manufacturing cigars is a far cry from a lot of other industries.... Camacho has working on that same bale of pre-embargo cuban tobacco for years now.... give me a F'in break.

[deep]

This may be a little off topic but the theme of this post is exactly what I have been looking for. I am not a new smoker but only this year become more serious. The questoin I have is do Cigars stay the same for many years or are they more like wine where the differ on each production run?

For example if I really like the Oliva V robusto now can I buy a box next summer and expect them to taste the same or do I have to stock up on these boxes now? If they stay the same do cigar makers stop making a certain line when that tobacco runs out?

Thank you for any info

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by duckmanco

I have heard/seen Rocky state in video interviews (can't remember where or I would post) but I believe he stated that the wrapper is 12 years and 10 years old, the cigar just happened to come out at 10 and 12 years respectively from when the wrapper was 1st harvested. So basically, the wrappers are not 20 something years old and never were, they were originally harvested in '90 and '92.

If you ask me, its still misleading as hell and I frown on it, especially for new smokers. But then again, truth in advertising and even manufacturing cigars is a far cry from a lot of other industries.... Camacho has working on that same bale of pre-embargo cuban tobacco for years now.... give me a F'in break.

When I asked the rep about the question of the tobbaco I knew about the information about the broadleaf wrapper being harvested in the early 90's and my query was about how much is left of that considering an awful lot of Vintage cigars have been sold in the last 20 years and are still being sold at a pretty good clip. I'd have thought that they would have exhausted this supply but then again,,,that is what I get for thinking.

The more I research the better info I get,,,,,Rocky Patel used to be a Hollywood lawyer who represented a couple of notable people in the mid 90's,,,Arnold Schwarzenegger and Gene Hackman. Seems the more time he hung out with these guys between takes on their movies he got interested in the cigar industry and then sold his practice and spent 5 years in Honduras learning the trade. Indian Tabac in 2002 was then changed to Rocky Patel Premium Cigars and in 2003 the Vintage 90 and 92 Series came out. Talk about somebody who changed careers at the right time!

[duckmanco]

^^^^ I would bet every ounce of that original harvest is without a doubt gone. So, the 1992 and 1990 line live on, but continue using 10 and 12 year old wrapper, just not from 1990 or 1992.

To answer the other question above about the Oliva V robustos..... its a complex answer, but the answer is "sort of". Consistency from year to year is something every manufacturer strives to attain. I believe it was one of the guys from EO who had said nearly anybody can make a few boxes of incredible cigars, but having the amount of tobacco necessary to continue to make the line consistent for years into the future is tough. My strategy is if you like something the way it is now, pick up a box, but be warned most cigars mellow with age, so take that into consideration also. On the other hand, Oliva happens to be one of the best in the business, and most consistent IMO, so if to be example specific, I would bet the V line will be around for a while and knowing how consistent the Serie G line is, I would bet the V's will be just as consistent for years to come. Of course YMMV. Confusing at all?

[veteranvmb]

So we do not believe Rocky on this, but darn, that guy knows how to keep the blend consistent from year to year, and the quality of the rolls.

Its darn near hard in the 1990 vintage, to ever find anything wrong. Its sort of like they are all cloned. They taste the same, they look the same, they smoke the same, they age the same, they smell the same. I have never seen this consistency in another cigar. Of course I have not had the priveledge yet of smoking those 20 and 30 dollar cigars yet. But even then when I read the reviews on them, there seems to be inconsistances in the cigars.
Now that we talked about this, I need to buy several hundred more r.p. vintage 90 churchills to insure my supply of them. I think like 1500 would always insure me of a 3 year supply.
Would that be good for you Gary, JIC of you know what? LOL

Much regards Jerry