Educating my tastebuds - Maduro?

[fuente~fuente]

If they're not your thing Andy, then they're just not your thing.... It's cool... You like what you like.

I would reccomend you try some of the maduro's the other guys suggested too. You may find just a couple suit your palate.... Nothing wrong with that at all. It's all part of the journey!

[chu2]

Originally Posted by fuente~fuente

If they're not your thing Andy, then they're just not your thing.... It's cool... You like what you like.

I would reccomend you try some of the maduro's the other guys suggested too. You may find just a couple suit your palate.... Nothing wrong with that at all. It's all part of the journey!

A big fave of mine is the Sancho Panza Double Maduro, which is close to the Oliva G you said you have from what I hear. Also, make sure if you ever pick up another 5 Vegas A, give it a little time to age. It mellows out the "charred toast" aspect a bit.

Besides that, I have to agree-not everyone likes maduros. There's a reason that so many different types of cigars are made. Smoke what you like.

[jadeg001]

Personally, I'm not a huge fans of the maduros that you mentioned that you smoked, however, I enjoy maduros more than any other type of cigar. I agree with the other opinions that you should try some padrons. The anniversario line is amazing, and many people I have talked to think they are the best cigars in the world. However, they can be pricey. I would give one a shot. If you like it then you are golden- and might even find yourself buying many more. If you don't then I would suggest you keep smoking what you like, while at the same time branching out to different, new smokes. Over time your palate will change. It happens to everyone, and more than likely throughout that change you will find that you start to like maduros.

[AndyPanda]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and info.

Today I smoked the Oliva G maduro -- again, prelight it is delicious. I love the smells and the tastes. But once lit it didn't do much for me. Though it was the best of the maduros I've tried so far ... unless it turns out that the Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 is actually maduro (still not sure if it is or not - some say yes other no). The Oliva G came the closest, prelight, to the flavors that I like so much in the Vintage 1990 and I had great hopes for it. And it wasn't bad at all - just didn't really grab me the way a few other smoke do.

I still haven't tried the ITC Super Fuerte Maduro that's sitting in my Humidor. Love the way it smells right now - dunno how I'll like smoking it until I get a chance to light it up.

And, yes, I definitely understand that I don't "need to" like maduros - I was just curious since the majority of the posts I read seem to favor maduro over the others and wondered why my experience, so far, has been different.

I keep telling myself to just stick with what I already know I love - the RP Vintage 1990 give me an experience that seems like what the maduro lovers describe enjoying about maduro. And the Pepins give me the kick that I enjoy when I want a peppery smoke. (and the Oliva G had elements of both - but at a much less interesting scale).

And I do plan to let the series 'A' and the others sit for months and try them again to see if they've transformed. And I'll try a few more of the suggestions made here just to see if any of them grab me.

Thanks again to everyone for all the info on "what is maduro anyway?" and different suggestions to try.

[Phantom57]

True maduro wrappers are not particularly strong, but can be flavorful and pungent in the good ones. Some manufacturers dye or cook the leaf to look like a maduro, and RP is one of these. Try an Oliva or Padron maduro to see what a real one tastes like.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by AndyPanda

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and info.

Thanks again to everyone for all the info on "what is maduro anyway?" and different suggestions to try.

Gurkha Doble Maduro is my very favorite Maduro. I would put it in the Medium to medium-Strong range. Very flavorful, but not overwhelming.

If you want something stronger, the I would suggest the Gurkha Black Puro.

Gurkha is a boutique cigar, so they use rare tobaccos that have more time and labor invested in them. These are more "artisan" style cigars that are more true to the original techniques.

Don't let people stop you from trying certain brands due to processing techniques. It's a simple fact that people put value in a consistant produt, and the industry is simply responding to consumer patterns. We consume plenty of products with artificial colors and added sugar without a second thought. But for some reason, people become very hypocritical when they learn that their tobacco may have gone through these same processes.

If you're a cigar purist, then you won't smoke maduro's of any sort, as they weren't considered fit for sale to Europe. They didn't even become popular until the last 50 years or so.


Another interesting fact is that maduro is simply the color of the wrapper. They can be made out of various tobacco strains that will affect the flavors. Most maduros are connecticut broadleaf, but you can also get maduros made from Corojo, Habano, Camaroon, Brazilian, etc. They could be sungrown or shadegrown. There's a lot of variety to try, all with unique flavors of their own.


Most people prefer lighter cigars (Monte Cristo, Macanudo, Ashton, etc), so you may fit into this category. These cigars don't leave much aftertaste if any, while I think that the maduro tends to linger on your pallet much longer. I think this might explain why some people think of Maduro as being stronger...regardless of actual strength or flavor profile.

[ongreystreet]

This is the way I know it.

Maduro wrappers are created during the curing process. There really is no definite answer to what is or isn't a Maduro wrapper. All wrapper tobacco goes thru a curing process. Maduro wrappers are typically classified as those that cure for longer periods with additional process such as additional heat which cause the wrapper to release and absorb oils and turn the wrapper darker. This however does not mean that wrappers considered to be natural don't have lengthy curing times or aren't also subjected to additional processes such as heat and pressure. The end product and how the cigar manufacturer markets the cigar really determines whether or not it is classified as a Maduro or not. It is true that Maduro leaf can be made from several types of tobacco. It is also true that Maduro leafs is typically taken from the bottom of plants or is made from tougher tobacco to withstand the curing process.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by e-man

If you're a cigar purist, then you won't smoke maduro's of any sort, as they weren't considered fit for sale to Europe. They didn't even become popular until the last 50 years or so.

This would be because they were only invented 50 years ago. Before then, maduro was only considered a wrapper color, and actually it remains that way in Cuba.

[Rubix^3]

I used to love the RP1990, but grew to love cigars with a little more spiciness. My current faves:

• Don Pepin Garcia JJ
• 601 Blue Label (the Green Label is an Oscuro, but really nice too)
• Oliva Serie G Maduro
• Rocky Patel the Edge Maduro
• Ashton Aged Maduro
• Padron 80yr Anniversary Maduro

[e-man]

Originally Posted by ongreystreet

This is the way I know it.

Maduro wrappers are created during the curing process. There really is no definite answer to what is or isn't a Maduro wrapper. All wrapper tobacco goes thru a curing process. Maduro wrappers are typically classified as those that cure for longer periods with additional process such as additional heat which cause the wrapper to release and absorb oils and turn the wrapper darker. This however does not mean that wrappers considered to be natural don't have lengthy curing times or aren't also subjected to additional processes such as heat and pressure. The end product and how the cigar manufacturer markets the cigar really determines whether or not it is classified as a Maduro or not. It is true that Maduro leaf can be made from several types of tobacco. It is also true that Maduro leafs is typically taken from the bottom of plants or is made from tougher tobacco to withstand the curing process.

That is correct with one slight correction. You are confusion Curing with Fermentation.

Fermentation is the process in which piles of leaves are broken down by micro-organisms. The leaf piles supply a warm wet environment for the micro-organisms to thrive in. The micro-organisms eat the leaf matter and generate heat, which caramelizes sugars and darkens the leaves. They generate so much heat that the piles will spontaneously combust if they aren't rotated regularly.

Curing halts the fermentation process and preserves the leaves in their current condition. The leaves are hung out to dry, so that they no longer support the micro-organisms. The leaf stops decomposing, so no more ammonia is produced, and no more heat is generated. Once cured, the leaves can be stacked into bales, without worry of any additional fermentation.

Dry curing takes the process to the next level. They chop and dry the tobacco so that it is very consistent for machine rolled products, like cigarettes and "paper wrapper" cigars (eg. Swisher Sweets). Dry cured tobacco does not need to be humidified. There are even a couple of dry cured, hand rolled, long leaf cigars on the market.

[ongreystreet]

I am pretty sure I am not confusing curing with fermentation.

[e-man]

Originally Posted by ongreystreet

I am pretty sure I am not confusing curing with fermentation.

I've done some research on this to check the validity of both our claims. There appears to be a lot of conflicting information floating around. Possibly, caused by translation to English?


To your point. Tobacco is cured in a curing barn to reduce the moisture content of the leaves, and to turn the leaves from green to brown. Oils are drawn out, then back into leaves and enzymes convert starches to sugars.


I see some documentation that states the curing barn is where the darkness is regulated. The article below, states that the purpose of fermentation is to make colors uniform and reduce the resin/nicotine levels. It also implies that cure and ferment mean the same thing.

Humatic Journal: Curing Tobacco

The pile is called a burros and is covered with cloth. Tobacco is moistened to 25% - 30% humidity. This reduces resins in the leaf and they attain a uniform color. In the second fermentation the leaves are moistened with a proprietary mixture of water and tobacco stems. This is a more aggressive fermentation which removes odor and some gases. This reduces ammonia and nitrogenous gases (molecule of nicotine).

...

The cured or fermented tobacco s then packed into large bales.

Meanwhile, the majority of Merchants, Manufacturers, and other cigar related sites claim the fermentation process is responsible for the darkening of maduro wrappers

According to JR: JRCigars.com: JR Cigar University: Maduro Cigar Wrappers 101

Maduro wrapper leaves are fermented longer and at a higher temperature. Natural wrappers will be fermented to between 100 and120 degrees for most varieties, while Maduro wrappers are fermented at higher temperatures, sometimes as high as ~150 degrees before being cased and turned. This extended high temperature fermentation turns the leaves the dark brown Maduro color.

According to Oneoff: Cigars,Humidors,Cigar Accessories,Cigar Cutters,Cigar Cases,Cigar Gifts - CUBANCRAFTERS

Maduro are the darkest of all the tobacco shades and the leaves require extra time during fermentation to achieve this dark color.

According to CigarDictionary.com: http://www.cigarpictionary.com/Maduro.html

Portuguese for old or mature. Ripe in Spanish. A wrapper shade from a very dark reddish-brown to almost black achieved through prolonged fermentation

According to cigar.com's description of Comacho cigars: Camacho Triple Maduro - Cigar.com

Maduro, which stems from the Spanish word for “ripe,” is a process by which the leaves from the higher more flavorful plant primings are fermented for long periods of time at high temperatures.

There doesn't seem to be any consensus, and most likely the terms CURE and FERMENT are somewhat interchangable. Most likely, fermentation is occurring during both the hanging and piling processes. Regardless of symantics, we're all talking about he same process here, and "CURED" tobacco refers to the finished product.


Your thoughts welcomed.


Here's a cool video that outlines the entire process:

YouTube - Cigars: Curing and Fermentation of Tobacco

[ongreystreet]

"Now here is where things get a little confusing: The term "Maduro" can be used to describe solely the color of a wrapper, or it can be used to actually refer to the process of creating a Maduro wrapper leaf. In short, a cigar can be Maduro in color, but not actually a Maduro wrapper and vice versa, while a wrapper can be fermented using the methods that create natural Maduro wrappers, but the resulting color may be on the lighter end of the Maduro color spectrum."

That is from the same JR article and I'll go with that.