Educating my tastebuds - Maduro?

[AndyPanda]

OK ... so I've been smoking for a few months now and learning what I like. And I've read opinions and reviews. People seem to really like Maduro - frequently when a cigar that comes in either corojo or maduro (RP Olde World for example) most of the opinions run towards the Maduro being so much better. And the descriptions generally describe maduro as being "sweet" or "cocoa" etc. (and they do smell that way to me prelight - but once lit it all changes)

Now, maybe I just haven't had the right maduro yet - but every maduro I've smoked tasted slightly bitter, burnt and generally boring - no real flavor at all except for something like burnt toast.

So I'm wondering if this is just personal taste (i.e. I don't like maduro) or I am trying the wrong maduros -- or ???

The cigars I tend to like the best are RP Vintage 90 & 92, Sungrown, Don Pepin Cuban Classic and other peppery cigars like that.

The maduros that I've tried and didn't care for are Cusano 18, 5 vegas series 'A', Graycliff 1666, I forget the others -- but I had pretty much the same taste experience with all three of those (bland - not interesting).

Another question --- what is the difference between a "maduro" and a similarly dark cigar like RP sungrown or Vintage? What makes a maduro wrapper - if it is just the sun that makes it dark, wouldn't any sungrown be considered a maduro?

thanks in advance

[Snake Hips]

The maduro cigars you've tried are bland - not interesting cigars. I would suggest trying any Padron maduro for a good maduro experience. Since you like the Pepin cigar, I would look into the Serie JJ Maduro as well.

As for "what is" maduro, it is simply leaf that they ferment longer purposely until it becomes dark, it is not from the sun. Other dark wrappers are dark because of serendipity; the same type of wrapper leaf may be nearly claro to nearly oscuro. Such is the nature of natural products. But maduro is intentionally fermented longer in its own process until it is a darker color and achieves a particular flavor.

[jeepthing]

I tend like Maduro's more. I have never tried the 3 you spoke of, I like Arturo Fuente 858 Maduro, Gurhka Double Maduro, Padilla Obsidian

[mrmoose411]

+2 on the Padron maduro, you'll definitely get that cocoa flavor. Partagas Black Label's are also very chocolatey IMHO.

[AndyPanda]

Thanks ... I will try these recommendations.

I have a couple of maduros in my humidor that I haven't tried yet. An Oliva G and a Indian Tabac Super Fuerte Maduro. Are either of those decent smokes?

Curious about the 5 vegas 'A' --- the reviews are all very good for that one but it just tastes like "blah" to me.

Looking forward to trying a padron and partagas so I can see what the whole maduro thing is all about.

How about the RP Olde World? -- seeing as how I like the Pepins so much can you give a guess as to whether I might like the Olde World or not - and if I'd be better off trying the corojo or maduro version?

Thanks all!

[commonsenseman]

Originally Posted by AndyPanda

1) I have a couple of maduros in my humidor that I haven't tried yet. An Oliva G and a Indian Tabac Super Fuerte Maduro. Are either of those decent smokes?

2) Curious about the 5 vegas 'A' --- the reviews are all very good for that one but it just tastes like "blah" to me.

3) Looking forward to trying a padron and partagas so I can see what the whole maduro thing is all about.

4) How about the RP Olde World? -- seeing as how I like the Pepins so much can you give a guess as to whether I might like the Olde World or not - and if I'd be better off trying the corojo or maduro version?

1) Both are excellent budget smokes in my opinion.

2) I like them, they're nothing special though.

3) Both are high quality cigars.

4) I wouldn't compare that to a Pepin at all, although I do enjoy the Corojo quite a bit.

[Bigtotoro]

I second the love for a nice Padron Anny Maduro. If you're not feeling that, maybe you don't like maduros? And thats ok, too.

[Rookee]

Smoke that Oliva G with a nice dark beer (if you drink?) and you'll see.

[JCK]

Ashton Aged Maduros and AVO Maduros are 2 of the more flavorful ones to me. They're in about the same price range as the Partagas Black.

The Padron x000 series is gonna be a better bet at a few bucks less. I'm not familiar with the 858 Maduro, but the other lines are flavorful smokes as well.

[AndyPanda]

I'm still a bit confused about just what is and isn't "maduro". I looked at the Partagas Black and nowhere in the description (at least not on the sites I looked) did it say "maduro". Same for Padilla Obsidian - no mention of the word "maduro" there either. Though looking at them they sure look like maduro to me.

Then I found a couple of reviews for the RP Vintage 90 that claimed it was a maduro. I love that cigar and it is dark but I didn't think it was maduro.

Also, I have a Gurkha Black Dragon Fury in my humidor - I've seen one site calling that a maduro and other sites that don't. It's dark but I didn't think it was maduro - anyone know? Smells damn good - been waiting for the right time to try it.

And meanwhile I'll try that Oliva G with a dark beer - thanks for the tip.

I saw a Padron Anniversary maduro on cbid but it was at $25 for one stick then I realized it was a 1926 -- I guess the 1964 or a x000 would be more in my range.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

[AndyPanda]

I googled a bit and found this explanation that I'll paste in below - and now I realize that Snake Hips was saying the same thing in an earlier response here.

<from another site>
Maduro being dark or black in color is a big misconception. The word "maduro" in translation actualy means "ripe". Maduro for tobacco is just a process in the curing. While curing the bundles of tobacco, the tobacco is flipped over and over at different times bringing the natural sweetness of the tobacco out. The tobacco itself can have a varying degree of shades or colors.
All in all maduro is not the color , it is the process in which the tobacco was cured.

[jeepthing]

This is from cigar.com
Maduro Cigars
Maduro, perhaps the most misunderstood tobacco in the world, has slowly been taking more of the spotlight as cigar makers add more dark and oily blends to their lines. Maduro has had a tough reputation over the past 15 years, mainly because of misconceptions by cigar fans that have given a stigma to maduro as being strong when in fact they are typically quite the opposite. Maduro literally translates as “ripe” in Spanish and is not a specific type of tobacco, but rather a process employed on any variety of tobaccos to extract extra sugars from the leaf through extended fermentation. This process is lengthy, producing high levels of heat and as a natural by-product, turns the tobacco a beautiful, dark color with an oily texture. When done properly, a good maduro wrapper will possess sweet qualities and the flavors are detected both on the lips and in the smoke. Not all wrapper is suited for maduro as a hefty variety of leaf is needed to withstand the extra steps in fermentation that are very hard on the tobacco. For this reason, mostly broadleaves or Habano seeds are most often used for maduro wrappers. The misconception surrounding maduro cigars as producing more strength originated during the cigar boom of the 1990s. During the boom, demand outweighed supply; there was an enormous incentive to cut corners to bring cigars to market as quickly as possible. Since some cigar makers did not have the patience to wait the several years necessary to process maduro wrapper naturally, many resorted to coloring or painting their tobacco so it would appear as a fully fermented maduro. Since this type of leaf is not fully fermented, it is often described as strong, edgy, tannic, and bitter in flavor. There was such an overwhelming amount of this raw tasting tobacco on the market that enthusiasts began to associate these qualities with all dark cigars. Maduro wrapper is currently the best it has ever been. The higher standards set by consumers has pressured factories to process and fully ferment all of their tobacco, which is why many people are gravitating back to the sweet and flavorful qualities of maduro wrapped cigars.

[danmcmartin]

Originally Posted by AndyPanda

Then I found a couple of reviews for the RP Vintage 90 that claimed it was a maduro. I love that cigar and it is dark but I didn't think it was maduro.

I believe the RP Vintage 1990 is Maduro. I didn't find it particularly spicy like you did though. I have really love the La Vieja Habana Maduro and have enjoyed several others like the RP Olde World Reserve and the RP I*Press, both anything but boring.

However, I didn't enjoy the Indian Tabac Super Fuerte Maduro or the Oliva G. I don't like the spice and chocolate combo. To each his own. It's your hobby, practice it as you like.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by AndyPanda

I'm still a bit confused about just what is and isn't "maduro". I looked at the Partagas Black and nowhere in the description (at least not on the sites I looked) did it say "maduro". Same for Padilla Obsidian - no mention of the word "maduro" there either. Though looking at them they sure look like maduro to me.

Then I found a couple of reviews for the RP Vintage 90 that claimed it was a maduro. I love that cigar and it is dark but I didn't think it was maduro.

Also, I have a Gurkha Black Dragon Fury in my humidor - I've seen one site calling that a maduro and other sites that don't. It's dark but I didn't think it was maduro - anyone know? Smells damn good - been waiting for the right time to try it.

And meanwhile I'll try that Oliva G with a dark beer - thanks for the tip.

I saw a Padron Anniversary maduro on cbid but it was at $25 for one stick then I realized it was a 1926 -- I guess the 1964 or a x000 would be more in my range.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

The Partagas Black is not a maduro. A lot of people seem to think so, it looks like.

[ongreystreet]

It's usually easier to tell from the taste then to judge from the wrapper. I tend to lean towards Maduros, but try not to lean to much one way or I might miss out on a natural I might like. I use to be a big fan of the Oliva G's, but the last 2 I had didn't smoke well, got away from the CAOs and had one last week and it was sweet, literally. So just keep trying them, a few times each.

A few Maduros I'm enjoying lately, correct me if I am wrong:

ITC Super Fuerte
Muira
Cubao
Brazilia
Legends(not the CI one) (Camacho)

I have some Nica Libres I need to smoke, gifted one to a friend and he enjoyed it.