Same cigar, slightly different shape... worth substantially different $$$ ?

[baglorious]

Originally Posted by monsoon

What about labor costs .... my own newbish curiosity, but I would gather that a robusto or churchill would be much easier to press & roll, than a torpedo or ... especially .... a perfecto.

Not that the rollers are paid great sums of moolah ... but if one can get 100 robustos rolled in an hour & only 50 perfectos, then that would have to be adjusted in the cost to the consumers.



Great topic/discussion by the way.

LOL... (here we go again...) Right, I'm also guessing there is an increased labor cost for anything with much shape because it is more time consuming to produce, or there is more waste due to frequency of substandard manufacture, or whatever the reason. That all seems to be borne out by the fact that torpedos and perfectos consistently are more expensive. Again, though... that's a manufacturing issue. The question for me is not "is the cost justified or is the manufacturer simply trying to screw us?" I don't care so much about that. I'm just trying to figure out whether, when I pay 35% more to get a Monte #2, I'm going to notice it enough to justfiy the cost as a consumer.

LOL... I hereby swear not to attempt to stifle the broadening of this thread any further! I'm done commenting on other peoples' posts! (Because I sound like a jerk!)

[baglorious]

Originally Posted by Bleedingshrimp

Think of it in terms of corn dogs, one the size of your arm and one the size of your finger. The amount of corn used will be the same on both...but the dog in the big one is going to have a more prominent flavor for good or for bad....while the corn will have a more prominent flavor in the smaller version because there is less dog to interact with it.

That's probably the worst analogy in cigar history!

WRONG! While I can't make up my mind on whether hotdogs are good or not, that was an EXCELLENT ANALOGY! That's a perfect example... and describes it very effectively even to people of substandard intelligence such as myself!

Even I understand corndogs!

[discdog]

Originally Posted by monsoon

What about labor costs .... my own newbish curiosity, but I would gather that a robusto or churchill would be much easier to press & roll, than a torpedo or ... especially .... a perfecto.

Not that the rollers are paid great sums of moolah ... but if one can get 100 robustos rolled in an hour & only 50 perfectos, then that would have to be adjusted in the cost to the consumers.



Great topic/discussion by the way.

That would/should make perfectly good sense. However, after seeing wholesale pricing, it doesn't hold water. I've seen Churchills cheaper than or the same price as robustos, and lanceros more than robustos. When there is a difference (again not in all cases), it is usually .50 or less. So there is really nothing more than what the retailer wants to charge. In my case, my dealer looks for value when he orders his stock. If he finds churhills for the same price a robustos, he orders the churhills. But not all vendors do this.

[baglorious]

It's probably rather lame to respond to your own thread more than all the other users combined, lol... but I just thought of a question I didn't toss in earlier.

Any one have any information and belief that the manufacturers might use a "better" qualitiy of the same blend of tobacco in different sizes? I.e., do they use the "best" parts of the tobacco (choice leaves) for the wrapper/binder/filler in a #2, despite the fact that they're using the same kinds of tobacco for the Double Corona or different sizes of the same line?

I assumed that if they were pulling the "choice" tobacco... it was going for an upgraded line (like the Monte White), rather than using the better stuff for a particular size within a line. (I know, for example, that an "Excalibur Royal Sterling" is the same composition as a regular Excalibur, but with "choice" leaves.)

Any of that stuff going on? Using the choice leaves for the "premier" size within a line?

[clovis]

As far as an additional thought on the figurado vs. straight shapes...

Figurados (pyramids, etc.) are harder to roll.
Hence they should be rolled by the higher level, more experienced rollers....the construction of the cigar should be more consistently excellent.
By construction, not only should it draw well, but the actual placing of the tobaccos and such should be better than the corona rolled by the rookie roller.

In my opinion you are paying 30% more for a "likley to be more expereinced" roller.

Depending on the brand of the cigar this can make a difference.

[burninator]

I think clovis hit the nail on the head. Perfectos, figurados, torpedos, and similarly shaped cigars require a much higher skill level to roll. Essentially you're paying for a cigar rolled by an expert, versus one rolled by someone who is good.

[punch]

Originally Posted by baglorious

OK... I think I'm understanding what was getting muddied for me: The wrapper/binder leaf is the same in one cigar line. The filler of the cigar is the same composition in one cigar line. (Whatever mix of tobaccos they use in the filler doesn't vary from cigar to cigar in one line.) That's what I initially thought when I assumed they used the "same tobacco" in the various shapes in a single cigar line. All correct?

I am not sure what you mean by "line" of cigar. If you mean "frontmark" or "vitola", you are correct. But if you mean what I think you mean, you are not always correct. A given line of cigars (such as the Fuente "Green Lable" cigars) can have radically different filler blends withing the line. In this example, a Cuban Corona may not be the same "blend" as the Rothschild or Spanish Lonsdale. Yes, the "line" may all be generally Cameroon wrapped with DR filler, but WHAT DR filler? The Montecristo Afrique line is another example. As the the width of the cigar increases in this line, the cigar actually gets more mellow because the blend changes. I have been told that each of the sizes has the same amount of stronger Cameroon leaf, but the larger sizes blend with more leaf from other countries. The Montecristo White line is another that does not seem to use the same blend from frontmark to frontmark. I love the flavor of the Montecristo Court Tubo, but have little use for the rest of the line. There is no way that they can be the same blend with such a difference in taste.

[Bleedingshrimp]

Great thread! I've learned a lot reading through it too.

[PUFFNMO]

This is indeed an excellent thread. The thought that occurs to me is that we cannot really know the proportions of tobaccos in a given vitola, all we have to go on is our own smoking experience- as a few have described.

Thinking more about this I realise that even within one given box, each cigar will be slightly different, simply because cigar rolling is an art, not a science. An artist cannot paint the same picture twice exactly the same, and a cook cannot prepare the same dish the same way twice, but only follow general guidelines.Proportions cannot be exactly measured except by the handful, or feel in the hand of the roller.

This is not to contradict anybody's information, and the corn-dog analogy is spot on IMO.

From my simple perspective, I enjoy a figurado a bit more than a corona, because I admire the level of skill, and they are more comfortable for me to hold in my teeth if I want to. With a corona between my teeth my mouth is half agape making me look like the village idiot (no cracks pl.), and with a figurado I feel more like George Hamilton. Larry.

[PUFFNMO]

Forgot to add- the greater comfort of the figurado would possibly make smokers willing to pay a bit more, as well as the other reasons posted by other members.