Puff Cigar Discussion Forums

ATLHARP · 06-29-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeNimbus

I am skeptical about watching any Michael Moore film (all of his films should be taken with a grain of salt), but I do believe this movie deserves it's own merit.

I haven't seen it and probably never will due to MM being a profoundly serious scumbag, but I am curious if he mentioned a few things:

1. HMO's were created by Ted Kennedy and how his HMO Act of 1973 mandated businesses to offer them.
2. The inherent deficiencies in Socialized Medicine and the numerous deaths caused by shortages and waits to get treatment.
3. The bloated cost of Socialized Medicine and how many European nations are starting to abandon it.
4. Cuba's human rights record.
5. Which country Michael Moore goes to get his health care.

If any of these 5 things are discussed in any fashion in his movie, I might be tempted to see it. Till then, I won't hold my breath.

ATL

Xmodius · 06-30-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLHARP

I haven't seen it and probably never will due to MM being a profoundly serious scumbag, but I am curious if he mentioned a few things:

1. HMO's were created by Ted Kennedy and how his HMO Act of 1973 mandated businesses to offer them.
2. The inherent deficiencies in Socialized Medicine and the numerous deaths caused by shortages and waits to get treatment.
3. The bloated cost of Socialized Medicine and how many European nations are starting to abandon it.
4. Cuba's human rights record.
5. Which country Michael Moore goes to get his health care.

If any of these 5 things are discussed in any fashion in his movie, I might be tempted to see it. Till then, I won't hold my breath.

ATL

Good points!

MM is a leech, btw.

Puro_Angler · 06-30-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigar Lover 101

Another thing they don't mention is that if you want a semi-private room (two beds) it's about $200.00 a night. Hell, it's almost cheaper to go to a hotel!

Also, a lot of nurses aren't trained properly due to the shortage of them. Basiacally they'll hire anyone.

...That's my opinon.

A hotel doesn't provide health-related services around the clock plus diet-specific meals, O2, etc. I know you were being sarcastic in your comment, but you have to look at all the details that go into a hospital room, not just a bed. BTW, $200 a night seems pretty good; Take a look at U.S. numbers. Also, poorly trained nurses are a result of a poorly run governing board for that specific profession. That really has nothing to do with health care reimbursement issues and the millions of people who live each day hoping they don't get sick because they can't afford health care. I haven't seen the movie and I don't plan to. I work in the health care industry and see the real life version of it everyday. Basically it goes like this: the middle class is screwed.

yamaha6000 · 06-30-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeNimbus

I am skeptical about watching any Michael Moore film (all of his films should be taken with a grain of salt), but I do believe this movie deserves it's own merit.

NO film by michael Moore deserves merit. This man hates America, we have the best health care in the world. If you had a rare disease and needed medical treatment, where would you go, America or Cuba, where you would have to wait 6 months to get treatment?

dunng · 06-30-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigar Lover 101

Take the documentary "Super Size Me". At least that one was told in a very comedic nature and felt more like watching someone doing a personal bet as oppose to someone who just likes complaining.

Great documentary, also enjoyed his 30 Days series...

fordkustom · 06-30-2007, 09:27 PM

what is sad is this is an important issue however its being presented by moore which will result in it not being taken seriuosly if not out right ignored.

ATLHARP · 07-01-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordkustom

what is sad is this is an important issue however its being presented by moore which will result in it not being taken seriuosly if not out right ignored.

True,

It is an important issue. MM presence will insure that many, many people will outright ignore it. The biggest problem is that all sides of this NEED to be told. This isn't a partisan polemic that we are dealing with. The nature of health care is not political. I think Moore with Sicko tried to portray that, but Moore's premise is that socialized medicine is the way to go. That in and of itself is largely dishonest until you have shown the deficiencies in the system you are promoting. Moore cannot do that because it would corrupt the premise of his film; which is American health care is not only unfair but is a detriment to it's citizens.

This is why I believe that the issue deserves someone better than MM. I would like to see John Stossel or somebody else with some semblance of credibility deal with this issue than MM. I think the public deserves better than that.

ATL

JCK · 07-01-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaha6000

NO film by michael Moore deserves merit. This man hates America, we have the best health care in the world. If you had a rare disease and needed medical treatment, where would you go, America or Cuba, where you would have to wait 6 months to get treatment?

that's a tough question to answer. America may have the best health care in the World, but it comes at a price, an expensive one. I was in Korea last April visiting with my father. He was in and out of the hospital for chemo treatments.

There was a younger guy, maybe in his 40's admitted in the bed next to him. He looked alright. We got to talking and I found out that he was from Los Angeles. He required triple bypass surgery. I'm not pointing any fingers or saying what's right, what's wrong, but the point of story is he had one bypass performed in the United States to keep him alive. He didn't have Health Insurance so now he's looking at 80K in medical bills. Since he was Korean, his father made arrangements to have the second and third bypasses performed in Korea at a price of 8K for both.

So when it come down to where will you get your surgery performed people in the U.S. that do not have health insurance are considering alternative choices.

Personally, I have a pretty robust PPO option through work, so you'll find me in a hosptial bed in the U.S. somewhere if I'm ill.

EDIT: for my opinion on Michael Moore.

I don't care for his films.

Corona Gigante · 07-02-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordkustom

what is sad is this is an important issue however its being presented by moore which will result in it not being taken seriuosly if not out right ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLHARP

True,

It is an important issue. MM presence will insure that many, many people will outright ignore it...

Heh!

Roland Joffé (Captivity) wishes as many people would "ignore" his movie.

07-02-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

[SIZE=4]Analysis: 'Sicko' numbers mostly accurate; more context needed[/SIZE]
POSTED: 3:09 p.m. EDT, June 29, 2007

(CNN) -- Michael Moore's "Sicko," which opened nationwide Friday, is filled with horror stories of people who are deprived of medical service because they can't afford it or haven't been able to navigate the murky waters of managed care in the United States.

It compares American health care with the universal coverage systems in Canada, France, the United Kingdom and Cuba.

Moore covers a lot of ground. Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.

More...

Well check out the source on this article: CNN

If it comes from the Communist News Network, then it has to be the 100%, un-biased, drop dead truth, right??

CNN = MM = CNN = MM = CNN Two peas in the same pod.

I especially loved the CNN coverage (NOT) last week about the car bombs in London. While Scotland Yard was giving the news conference, CNN was running an op-ed piece about GB and the Iraq war, and the demo-house leaderships blurbs about how there wasn't any terrorist threats to justify even a single soldier's death. Ignore the facts, report bias opinions as news. Same-old Same-old for CNN. that is why I give very little credence to all the single sided reporting they do!

ATLHARP · 07-02-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

Well check out the source on this article: CNN

If it comes from the Communist News Network, then it has to be the 100%, un-biased, drop dead truth, right??

CNN = MM = CNN = MM = CNN Two peas in the same pod.

I especially loved the CNN coverage (NOT) last week about the car bombs in London. While Scotland Yard was giving the news conference, CNN was running an op-ed piece about GB and the Iraq war, and the demo-house leaderships blurbs about how there wasn't any terrorist threats to justify even a single soldier's death. Ignore the facts, report bias opinions as news. Same-old Same-old for CNN. that is why I give very little credence to all the single sided reporting they do!

CNN made a devil's bargains with Iraq by running their news-copy through their information bureau before they reported it. In essence, while CNN had a news agency in Iraq everything they reported was approved by Saddam Hussein's Ministry of Information. How do we know this? They admitted it in the NY Times! (link below)

http://foi.missouri.edu/jouratrisk/newswekept.html

CNN's modus operandi is to place news bureaus in autocracies and run their news copy through them. It is the pinnacle of unprofessional and unethical journalistic behavior, yet liberals still use them as if they had any credibility whatsoever. If Fox had done this, they would have been crucified for all time and told to disband their news bureaus globally. CNN should come clean about their news bureaus in places like Cuba and Burma; and provide transparency (for once) about their news practices in those locations.

Moore also is connected to this because his whitewash of Cuban health care is the same type of pandering and dishonesty that is practiced by others in the liberal media. That is the root of my objection concerning this and why Moore and CNN are really interchangeable when it comes to credibility and sincerity in presenting information. People need and deserve better period.

ATL

07-02-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLHARP

CNN made a devil's bargains with Iraq by running their news-copy through their information bureau before they reported it. In essence, while CNN had a news agency in Iraq everything they reported was approved by Saddam Hussein's Ministry of Information. How do we know this? They admitted it in the NY Times! (link below)

http://foi.missouri.edu/jouratrisk/newswekept.html

CNN's modus operandi is to place news bureaus in autocracies and run their news copy through them. It is the pinnacle of unprofessional and unethical journalistic behavior, yet liberals still use them as if they had any credibility whatsoever. If Fox had done this, they would have been crucified for all time and told to disband their news bureaus globally. CNN should come clean about their news bureaus in places like Cuba and Burma; and provide transparency (for once) about their news practices in those locations.

Moore also is connected to this because his whitewash of Cuban health care is the same type of pandering and dishonesty that is practiced by others in the liberal media. That is the root of my objection concerning this and why Moore and CNN are really interchangeable when it comes to credibility and sincerity in presenting information. People need and deserve better period.

ATL

Thanks for the link. Some of this I knew or have heard. It's nice to see the truth behind their bias. Too bad it's not published daily for those who think CNN is "Tha Bomb"!

txmatt · 07-02-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLHARP

I haven't seen it and probably never will due to MM being a profoundly serious scumbag, but I am curious if he mentioned a few things:

1. HMO's were created by Ted Kennedy and how his HMO Act of 1973 mandated businesses to offer them.
2. The inherent deficiencies in Socialized Medicine and the numerous deaths caused by shortages and waits to get treatment.
3. The bloated cost of Socialized Medicine and how many European nations are starting to abandon it.
4. Cuba's human rights record.
5. Which country Michael Moore goes to get his health care.

If any of these 5 things are discussed in any fashion in his movie, I might be tempted to see it. Till then, I won't hold my breath.

ATL

RG for you!