What the doctor said . . .

[beernut]

Great job!

IMO there are too few people willing to say what they think if it isn't PC, or conflicts with the current conventional wisdom.

Do let us know what, if any response you get.

[Leitner]

Originally Posted by oddball

Prove it

The case against "secondhand smoke" has no scientific merit, with knee-jerk conclusions based on faulty science and statistical nonsense. The anti-smoking establishment and their devoted followers, as with other groups with no real honest to goodness data, fallback on the "Save The Children" tactic. When one questions their "findings", they just label them "Child Killers" or similar.

I don't smoke my cigars around other folks (unless they do not mind) but not because I'm afraid of killing them. I recognize that many folks just do not like the smell, and if they associate the smell with death, well not much I can do to change them.

From what I can see (and yes, the Joe Jackson essay is a well written piece on tobacco in general), the case against "secondhand smoke" is a scam, IMO.

I couldn't agree more. Junk science at it's best (or worst depending on how you look at it) pure and simple.
I realize this opinion isn't likely to win me any friends here and may get me but I think it is time for those of us who enjoy smoking cigars, pipes or cigarettes to quit rolling over for the anti-smoking police lies and half-truths.
Kelly

[Marlboro Cigars]

Great post.

[c2000]

Originally Posted by oddball

Prove it

The case against "secondhand smoke" has no scientific merit, with knee-jerk conclusions based on faulty science and statistical nonsense. The anti-smoking establishment and their devoted followers, as with other groups with no real honest to goodness data, fallback on the "Save The Children" tactic. When one questions their "findings", they just label them "Child Killers" or similar.

I don't smoke my cigars around other folks (unless they do not mind) but not because I'm afraid of killing them. I recognize that many folks just do not like the smell, and if they associate the smell with death, well not much I can do to change them.

From what I can see (and yes, the Joe Jackson essay is a well written piece on tobacco in general), the case against "secondhand smoke" is a scam, IMO.

I'm with you 100%...Up until a year or two ago the anti smoking crazies were saying that 13,000 people a year die of second hand smoke,,then it grew to 49,000.and when you say it enough people believe it.If that is the case then what were the figures in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s..During those years people smoked everywhere,, at their desks, in airplanes, restaurants and bars. Should there not have been a pandemic of second hand smoke deaths..Answer there wasn't.. The anti-smoking alliance would not get very far except the Surgeon General said any second hand smoke is harmful..Did not say how harmful..If you asked if any exhaust from a veh is harmful this would have been the same answer..But they are using this to get the bans passed and using the employees health concern as there selling point. Minnesota just enacted the wall to wall smoking ban and the bar owners will feel the pinch but these people don't care if some bars go out of business because alcohol is their next cause..Like you I want to see how all this data is collected ..

Jerry (still smoking) in Minnesota.

[uncballzer]

Originally Posted by c2000

I'm with you 100%...Up until a year or two ago the anti smoking crazies were saying that 13,000 people a year die of second hand smoke,,then it grew to 49,000.and when you say it enough people believe it.If that is the case then what were the figures in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s..During those years people smoked everywhere,, at their desks, in airplanes, restaurants and bars. Should there not have been a pandemic of second hand smoke deaths..Answer there wasn't.. The anti-smoking alliance would not get very far except the Surgeon General said any second hand smoke is harmful..Did not say how harmful..If you asked if any exhaust from a veh is harmful this would have been the same answer..But they are using this to get the bans passed and using the employees health concern as there selling point. Minnesota just enacted the wall to wall smoking ban and the bar owners will feel the pinch but these people don't care if some bars go out of business because alcohol is their next cause..Like you I want to see how all this data is collected ..

Jerry (still smoking) in Minnesota.

I tried to look for some literature, but there's soo many studies out there trying to prove that "second hand smoke is bad" that I would have to search through thousands of papers just to find anything--I don't have to do that.

Richard (smoking away) in West Virginia.

[uncballzer]

Doctor mentioned smoking again today. Never got a reply to my email. However, he seemed to be apologizing, stating he never intends to "assert" his opinion on us. He did mention cigar and pipe use, though. Stated that "when talking about tobacco smoking, generally talking about cigarette smoking. Pipe and cigars are factor, but not necessarily as high as cigarettes. 10x greater risk [smoker, cigarette] than non smoker [for lung cancer]. But is also about dose."

Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I'll take it. I think that what I'll do for my patients, I'll tell them to quit cigarettes, and pick up a corn cob, then briar, then work their way to a '64 PAM!

Also, if you listened to the first 10 minutes of this guy, you'd think he has Alzheimer's! I'd like to insert the mp3 of the class's lecture, but don't think the attachments support them.o

[grinch]

Thank you guys, for having the "nads" to call out anyone who tries to shove the 'second hand smoke kills' or the 'smoking cigars is an addiction' up our collective "rears"!

Why is it that people have come to believe that anything done for pleasure, is now, an addiction??

I feel like cigar forums have become my 'speakeasy'......it's a sad thing when adults have to be ashamed to enjoy LIVING.

[krash]

During my last doctor's visit, he didn't say anything when I mentioned that I had started smoking cigars instead of using cigarettes. All test results would good, and my recent pulmonary function test was good. I understand the inherent danger of cigarette smoking, and that's why I quit. But, I don't see cigars in that category. I also don't smoke around other people for the simple fact some don't like it and some find the smell offensive. Personally I love the smell of cigars. Have since I was a kid. I agree with Jerry from Minnesota about the stats listed for deaths from secondhand smoke. Workplace smoking was already being banned in the 80's, and still the numbers of people are still going up? The numbers of smokers is decreasing, but the death count is climbing? In the end, it doesn't matter what we think. Some doctor, think tank, government entity with always come up with a study saying this is bad for you. I'll just continue smoking a nice fat stogie and continue on to the sports and comics sections. Thanks for reading my opinion.

[BigFrankMD]

If people want to smoke let them frigging smoke. I am so tired of people getting a bum wrap for smoking. If its so god damn bad make it illegal I mean ffs. Its not like I smoke a cigar then get behind the wheel of a car and kill someone. Christ I only hurt myself OMG.

Its ok for people to eat fast food everyday three times a day, that shit isnt taxed. but when I spark a cigar up people look at me like im eating aborted babies or some shit. Really. ya want to save people from killing themselves, less push to help our society to become less stressfull, exercise, slower paced and promote healthier eating habits. Two of those that I mentioned I cure with a good cigar, relaxing and slowing down.

They can take tobacco from my cold dead hands.

Sorry I keep seeing this kinda crap and it kills me.

[uncballzer]

Originally Posted by BigFrankMD

If people want to smoke let them frigging smoke. I am so tired of people getting a bum wrap for smoking. If its so god damn bad make it illegal I mean ffs. Its not like I smoke a cigar then get behind the wheel of a car and kill someone. Christ I only hurt myself OMG.

Its ok for people to eat fast food everyday three times a day, that shit isnt taxed. but when I spark a cigar up people look at me like im eating aborted babies or some shit. Really. ya want to save people from killing themselves, less push to help our society to become less stressfull, exercise, slower paced and promote healthier eating habits. Two of those that I mentioned I cure with a good cigar, relaxing and slowing down.

They can take tobacco from my cold dead hands.

Sorry I keep seeing this kinda crap and it kills me.

Good argument. Well articulated in the fact that you seem pissed off about the subject. I like!

[NCRadioMan]

There are some great references, thanks to Navydoc, that may help you in this thread: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthr...ghlight=cancer

Tell him you don't like the color of his car and since you don't like it, he shouldn't have it.

[uncballzer]

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

There are some great references, thanks to Navydoc, that may help you in this thread: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthr...ghlight=cancer

Tell him you don't like the color of his car and since you don't like it, he shouldn't have it.

Thanks for the link; got a test coming up monday--so i'll read thru that on class tuesday.

[palm55]

Seems to me that it's time be stage a national "Cigar Walk"... Drop everything we're doing, grab our favorite stogie, and enjoy a leisurely walk around the block!!!

PHEW!!! Imagine the traffic jams!!!

I exercise... I eat fast food perhaps two or three times in a year... I blow cigar smoke when I feel like it.

My physician may exercise, though he is (in my opinion) dangerously overweight. He blows verbal smoke about smoking. Bet I could beat him around the block!!!

Ahh well... Onward & Forward!!!

[rx2010]

It's funny, because while I definitely sympathize with the anti-smoking crowd to an extent, I wish we'd be making a bigger stink about fast food.

I would bet every penny I earn in my life that our country is more harmfully effected by fast food than any type of smoking. I too think cigarettes are a terrible addiction (though a personal choice), but I think the person who does not smoke but eats 2+ fast food meals a day is probably in much worse health.

The top killers in our nation are heart disease and stroke, not lung cancer, elevated blood pressure and cholesterol are more likely to kill you than smoking, but smoking is bad, and burgers with 72g of fat in them are a ok (that's what the hardee's/carl's jr 6 dollar burger have). I think cigarette smoking is about the most unappealing thing I could ever start doing, BUT, I think fast food is faaar more unhealthy.

ask your professor what is more likely to kill you, a cigarette, or fast food.
(BTW, I know/have seen many many physicians that are terribly unhealthy. It's a lot easier to preach than to practice)

[uncballzer]

Originally Posted by palm55

Seems to me that it's time be stage a national "Cigar Walk"... Drop everything we're doing, grab our favorite stogie, and enjoy a leisurely walk around the block!!!

PHEW!!! Imagine the traffic jams!!!

I exercise... I eat fast food perhaps two or three times in a year... I blow cigar smoke when I feel like it.

My physician may exercise, though he is (in my opinion) dangerously overweight. He blows verbal smoke about smoking. Bet I could beat him around the block!!!

Ahh well... Onward & Forward!!!

Exactly--it's all moderation and lifestyle. You can still smoke and be healthier than most out there as long as you exercise and do the harmful stuff in relative moderation.