Experiment in Tasting

[wayner123]

First off, a big THANK YOU to each one who participated. I hope the results prove helpful to the community as a whole.

So then, on to my theories. I had thought about food and tasting for a while and I wondered if the food we eat plays a part in “how” we taste a cigar. I mean every description one has for flavors, has to of come from a previous experience with said flavor. But what if a person has not had that particular flavor? Or they may have had it, but it was not fresh or burned into their brain?

My theory was that when a flavor is not known the brain then short circuits and tries to link it up with another flavor. Most likely, one that is most prominent in the cigar or a flavor that one attributes to cigars (tobacco). I also theorized that when this short circuit happens it may sometimes link up with a flavor that is not desirable, and thus lead someone to think the cigar had a bad taste.


This is a short summary of each participant’s review of the cigar.

Volt
Beans – Pina colada, strawberry daiquiri, margarita
Flavors realized – sugary, tobacco, slight citrus

Blues Tiger
Beans – Peach, tangerine, grapefruit
Flavors realized – Peach, orange, slight grapefruit

Virginia Gent
Beans – Black pepper, cinnamon, A&W rootbeer
Flavors realized – black pepper, tobacco

Mark C
Beans – peanut butter, and 2 dove dark chocolate’s (not beans, but actual chocolate)
Flavors realized – Chocolate, woodsy taste (cedar maybe)

DennisP
Beans – watermelon, blueberry, plum, grass, dirt
Flavors realized – pepper, faint citrus, leather, nut/ burn coffee


Now for the kicker….

Each person had the same cigar. It was a 1989 Don Lino Maduro. This cigar line is brand new, so that may have accounted for the nic level (which I personally haven’t noticed). I apologize for the loose draws. The ones I have had from this batch had the same loose draw and I am talking with the makers of the cigar about it.

I proposed myself as the control (the basis for which the flavors would be measured). I would not say I can pick up more flavors than the next guy, but I have smoked enough of these to get a handle on the flavors realized. The flavors I get from these cigars are: A little spice, citrus, coffee and chocolate. The tobacco taste that is there is of a maduro pungent taste.


What does this tell us??

What I did is send each person one of the flavors I had experienced. All with the exception of DennisP (more on that later). So I had planned that each person would find that the beans given, would produce mostly that flavor. And for each one that’s mostly what happened. So what does that mean?

Well, that could mean a couple things. (I’ll give the possibilities and then my opinion as to which one I feel is correct.)

• It could be that the food item was fresh in the person’s mind. Therefore allowing the link to be made more easily.
• The person could have tasted that flavor because that is what they “thought” would be in the cigar and thus have created an imaginary link.
• It could be too that the when the beans did not help, the tobacco or spice flavor came about because that was the closest link to what they “should” be tasting.

(this list is not comprehensive, so if you feel there are some other reasons I would love to hear them)

My opinion is that number 1 is the most correct. I base that because each cigar was the same, but they experienced different flavors. And the only thing different were the food items. I also instructed them not to imagine flavors if they were not there. And everyone abided by the instructions.

Furthermore, DennisP did not receive any bean flavors which I felt would be in the cigar. This would allow him to review it and see if he could come across any of them. He did but very mildly. If he had the citrus or the chocolates, I think the link would have been much stronger.

So this to me, proves the link between tasting food and cigars. So you ask, how does that help me?

Well it has long been my assumption that people who claim they cannot taste flavors in cigars, can actually taste them, they just don’t know what they are. Or in other words the mental "links" are not there. So it does well to experience as many foods and flavors that you can and build up that rolodex of flavors.

I think this test proved my other theory as well. That when the link is not there people’s minds short circuit and they go to what taste is dominant or what they feel they should experience. When DennisP and Virginia Gent tasted only pepper and tobacco, those were two dominant flavors that they could find. I say that the other flavors were there, but they did not have the fresh link or a link at all on which to go back to. So they went with what they knew.

If you have made it this far, THANKS for reading. I hope this has proven a little bit helpful. I in no way think this is a ‘solve all’ for the tasting problems people have. My disclaimer is that everyone’s tastes are subjective. One person might find a flavor they like, while another person hates that same flavor. But I think that it would help everyone to experience more of the foods and flavors in our world in order to build up the databank in which to get the most of our cigars.

If anyone has other thoughts on the results, please post them. I know I may have missed some points that others may see. Thanks again to all who helped!!

[DennisP]

Interesting test. I do think the level of burn somewhat skewed my review towards the pepper, when I could get the cigar cooler it was much more mild.

One flavor I mentioned in the beginning was a sweetness, although I didn't give much more detail. That is the maduro like flavor I often get.

Thanks for doing this.

[Blues Tiger]

Amazing. Thank you for allowing us to participate in your experiment. This has been really an eye opener for me. I was very excited to be tasting distinct flavors in a cigar as I have rarely done before. I think the reason I tasted the jellybean flavors in the cigar were because they were fresh on my mind and also because I expected them to be there. The whole time I had suspicions that we were given the same cigar, but I can truely say that I indeed tasted the flavors you suggested. I can't wait to purchase this cigar and try to experience the flavors others tasted as well. This has been very informative and fun.

Thanks again!

Blues Tiger

[Gargoyle]

Awesome write up & very interesting! I am always amazed with he level of flavors that people can pick up in cigars, wine & the like. It would be fantastic if there was some sort of baseline scent/palette tasting kit that was available somewhere so we could all experience & describe some of this on a more consistent basis. We are all pretty much on our own with this stuff and it is sometimes hard to compare notes with others when it is such an individualized experience. There could be a market for your jelly bean kits.

[DBall]

Very nice test, Wayne... I may need to perform a few experiments of my own. Hell, I think I need to try one of those 1989's too (wish they made a corona/PC size...)

Thanks for the awesome thread, man!

[DBall]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle

It would be fantastic if there was some sort of baseline scent/palette tasting kit that was available somewhere so we could all experience & describe some of this on a more consistent basis. We are all pretty much on our own with this stuff and it is sometimes hard to compare notes with others when it is such an individualized experience.

That is an awesome idea!

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by DBall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle
It would be fantastic if there was some sort of baseline scent/palette tasting kit that was available somewhere so we could all experience & describe some of this on a more consistent basis. We are all pretty much on our own with this stuff and it is sometimes hard to compare notes with others when it is such an individualized experience.

That is an awesome idea!!

I think that the flavor wheel is a good place to start. Take that wheel and try as many of the flavors as you can. That's what I did at least.

The key is not to just gobble down the flavor, but really try to visualize it. Try and get the flavor to come across so much that it feels like you are holding the item in your hand. Anther way to remember it, would be to give it a funny or silly trait. When tasting an Orange, picture a huge orange rolling down a hill with a weird looking cat dancing on top of it or something like that. That way of memorizing things has proven very successful.

[Rhody738]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I think that the flavor wheel is a good place to start. Take that wheel and try as many of the flavors as you can. That's what I did at least.

The key is not to just gobble down the flavor, but really try to visualize it. Try and get the flavor to come across so much that it feels like you are holding the item in your hand. Anther way to remember it, would be to give it a funny or silly trait. When tasting an Orange, picture a huge orange rolling down a hill with a weird looking cat dancing on top of it or something like that. That way of memorizing things has proven very successful.

Ummmm, Wayne... Are you taking some "special" jelly beans? I've never thought of it that way! I always picture an orange dressing in a sporting jacket betting on a horse race, and after the orange loses all of his money on a single bet his orange wife divorces him so he's forced to live in a crappy one room apartment beside the train tracks.

But to each his own I guess...

[Volt]

In the large part, I do think I will agree with you. As I stated in one reply, I don't think I went looking for the taste I found in the beans, but they did help me taste what was there. I know a lot of times I'll say to me self, I taste something but can't put my finger on it, supports the "how fresh the teste is to the mind" theory you have.

On the tobacco/nic IO was feeling, prob due to the burn. I was really having to hit it to keep it going plus many re-lights.

Thnaks alot for letting me participate. I do think some work in refreshing flavors to my memory may make some of my smokes more enjoyable.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I think that the flavor wheel is a good place to start. Take that wheel and try as many of the flavors as you can. That's what I did at least.

There may be a way to adapt a wine aroma kit for cigars. Start here:
http://www.wineaccessory.com/aroma.htm

I haven't compared the flavor wheels for wine and cigars, but I'd guess there would be a fair amount of overlap, particularly on the red wine side. These aroma kits give you the added advantage of being able to sniff a particular scent while you're puffing on the stogie. Not quite the same as actually tasting something, but should be pretty close since smell is the dominant factor in 'taste'.

DennisP - I agree on the heat/pepper link. I did notice that when it started to get a little hot, the flavors got a little more harsh. This cigar doesn't seem too forgiving for fast smokers.

[Gargoyle]

Originally Posted by Mark C

There may be a way to adapt a wine aroma kit for cigars. Start here:
http://www.wineaccessory.com/aroma.htm

I haven't compared the flavor wheels for wine and cigars, but I'd guess there would be a fair amount of overlap, particularly on the red wine side. These aroma kits give you the added advantage of being able to sniff a particular scent while you're puffing on the stogie. Not quite the same as actually tasting something, but should be pretty close since smell is the dominant factor in 'taste'.

DennisP - I agree on the heat/pepper link. I did notice that when it started to get a little hot, the flavors got a little more harsh. This cigar doesn't seem too forgiving for fast smokers.

Nice!!! I have a friend that is a total wine freak. It would be great to go half with her on this... but I think my wife would kill me for making such a purchase. Naturally, the "Master Kit" looks like the one I'd want to have due to the mad scientist feel all those samples would give.Thanks for the head's on on this and for wayner123's info on the flavor wheel. I never knew such things existed!

[Volt]

I just re-read the whole thread. Wayne, you might give thought to a similiar test, with the beans again, but keep the type of bean flavors hidden from the reviewer. Might be interesting to see how that would compare. I do think 5 was a better number than 3. Having a control point (you and DennisP) added to the validity IMO.

[KnuckleDragger]

Great test, great read, just plain great! Thank you for bumping this one Volt (intentionally or un-intentionally). As a newbie to this board, and for the most part a newbie to cigars, I found this quite educational. Wayner, you have once again improved the quality of this board, thank you. (and if need another guinnee-pig for this test I'd love to get in line!) ~KD

[Volt]

Wayne just re-posted this in another thread, thought I would bump it back up for some of the newer people to read. Some good thoughts in here.

[hardcz]

very cool read, thanks Wayne for getting this together, and the people who participated.