2nds? opinions?

[taltos]

If anybody does not believe that the seconds are as good as the banded cigars, I will trade 10 RP Vintage '92's (~$62.50) for an order of 15 seconds of the same product ($39.95). I am willing to do this twice. PM me if you want to take the challenge.

[craigchilds]

The RP seconds are very good.

But not all seconds are good. I disliked a bundle of El Credito cigars, which are "apprentice rolled 2nds" of La Gloria Cubana. Also, I once smoked a Roly, which is a 2nd of Indios Puros. Holy , it was bad. Stay away from Roly.

[ky toker]

Originally Posted by rpe

I won a bundle of La Aurora 2d's from the devil site a couple of weeks ago. They are just fine and well worth the money.

I bought a bundle of the Aurora 2nds for a yard-gar and for softball nights and being more than mid way through I'm surprised. They are good with the exception of one that seemed a bit blah. The only issue with mine is the draw being loose, but other than that they've smoked pretty damn good. And, they are more mild than I prefer a cigar and I still like them.

Good pennies spent to save the bills for another Island or two.

[Phidelt076]

Has anyone had any of the Perdomo ESV '91 seconds yet?

[Legend]

Yes seconds are seconds for a reason. If you notice in the ad it says "usually" only a cosmetic difference.

There is a flavor difference. It is not huge and a lot of guys won't be able to tell the difference.

I can. But it does not stop me from getting them. I enjoy the discount. For the most part they are worth it. But they are definately not just as good.

[mostholycerebus]

Originally Posted by Legend

Yes seconds are seconds for a reason. If you notice in the ad it says "usually" only a cosmetic difference.

There is a flavor difference. It is not huge and a lot of guys won't be able to tell the difference.

I can. But it does not stop me from getting them. I enjoy the discount. For the most part they are worth it. But they are definately not just as good.

I gotta call complete BS on this one. I smoke a LOT of seconds, and I smoke a lot of their firsts. There is absolutely no difference in taste whatsoever. Unless you wanna claim i'm one of the 'lots of guys who wont tell' or whatever taste snobbery you wanna use to support your falacious claim. As you are the absolute first person i've ever heard claim the slightest taste difference, I would infer that this may be a difference in your mind alone.

Personally, I won't buy a first if I can get a second. I usually get a few firsts anyway, trying out new sticks, parts of deals, trades, etc, but the seconds are every bit as tasty. On top of that, I enjoy seconds more because I know I saved some $ over the band snobs, and I don't mind (as much) having to put one down if necessary. I have noticed some cosmetic differences, but i only find one MAYBE 1 time in 5 sticks, and then it is something so minimal I wouldn't even consider it a flaw. Out of many bundles, I have never noticed excessive draw problems. If anything, I get more plugged premiums than seconds, despite the fact that some seconds supposedly are failed for draw test.

There are tons of amazing premiums out there, but in my experience the seconds taste identical. If a second is available I would much rather buy it, and use the money saved to get a premium that isn't not available as a second. This ends up giving me a nice mix of inexpensive but great sticks, and more premiums than I could normally afford if I was a band snob.

[Legend]

Originally Posted by mostholycerebus

I gotta call complete BS on this one. I smoke a LOT of seconds, and I smoke a lot of their firsts. There is absolutely no difference in taste whatsoever. Unless you wanna claim i'm one of the 'lots of guys who wont tell' or whatever taste snobbery you wanna use to support your falacious claim. As you are the absolute first person i've ever heard claim the slightest taste difference, I would infer that this may be a difference in your mind alone.

Personally, I won't buy a first if I can get a second. I usually get a few firsts anyway, trying out new sticks, parts of deals, trades, etc, but the seconds are every bit as tasty. On top of that, I enjoy seconds more because I know I saved some $ over the band snobs, and I don't mind (as much) having to put one down if necessary. I have noticed some cosmetic differences, but i only find one MAYBE 1 time in 5 sticks, and then it is something so minimal I wouldn't even consider it a flaw. Out of many bundles, I have never noticed excessive draw problems. If anything, I get more plugged premiums than seconds, despite the fact that some seconds supposedly are failed for draw test.

There are tons of amazing premiums out there, but in my experience the seconds taste identical. If a second is available I would much rather buy it, and use the money saved to get a premium that isn't not available as a second. This ends up giving me a nice mix of inexpensive but great sticks, and more premiums than I could normally afford if I was a band snob.

Sorry you feel that way. I've done blind tests on a number of seconds with friends(about 5 of us usually) Everytime, side by side, we could pick the second and the first. No one ever got it wrong. So we are either very lucky or able to tell the difference.

I do not doubt your experience that they taste identical to you. I'm no snob, nor will I fool myself, as a matter of fact I was one of the guys going into the tests we did originally thinking there was no difference.

Like I said, its not like I won't smoke them or buy them.

[Legend]

Also wanted to make it clear. I'm not claiming any sort or hyper-developed pallate or special abilities. Nor am I dogging 2nds. I think they are a great inexpensive way to get smokes.

I was just expressing my opinion and experience.

[jthegreat]

I'm smoking a RP Vintage 1992 2nd right now and aside from an annoying, but small, tear in the wrapper in the cap, I can't tell the difference between it and a 1st. Tastes and smells just fine. I'd be highly surprised if anyone call tell the difference in taste since it's all exactly the same tobacco.

[brigey]

Originally Posted by CigarMonkel

i've noticed a lot of 2nd's... like for example "Rockey Patel vintage 1990/1992 2nds" on cbid or bundles that will say 2nds on them. I know this means they were held back for some reason.. i think? and i've heard that they are ok to smoke but are they just as good as the ones that didn't get held back? i mean they got held back for a reason... right?

In most cases it is appearance. Every once and a while it is due to over runs and they have to thin the herd.

[dsmaddox]

Just got 3 bundles of RP seconds in the mail today.

[SmokinApe]

My thoughts, and they could be wrong...

Firsts - Banded and branded cigars
Selects - Minor wrapper flaws
Seconds - Minor wrapper flaws and potential draw problems
Overruns - made with extra tobacco, bland is off OR potential new line that didn't pass market tests

[BDC]

Good cheap cigar are the Super Premium 2nds from CI, $25 CBID 30 from CI.. Made by the Villazon factory.. For the price the best cigar ever..

[Legend]

Originally Posted by jthegreat

I'm smoking a RP Vintage 1992 2nd right now and aside from an annoying, but small, tear in the wrapper in the cap, I can't tell the difference between it and a 1st. Tastes and smells just fine. I'd be highly surprised if anyone call tell the difference in taste since it's all exactly the same tobacco.

Being exactly the same tobacco mean nothing. Better time of harvest. Better part of plant. Handled better. Stored better. There are so many variables. Just from a simple business view point. If it was exactly the same why sell it for less. Its not like they have too much or can't sell it.

[jthegreat]

Originally Posted by Legend

Being exactly the same tobacco mean nothing. Better time of harvest. Better part of plant. Handled better. Stored better. There are so many variables. Just from a simple business view point. If it was exactly the same why sell it for less. Its not like they have too much or can't sell it.

That's a good point. I guess it depends at what point the cigar becomes a "2nd". Do they make it exactly the same way and then check for flaws? Or do they separate out inferior materials and use those specifically to make the 2nds?

In any case, as far as the RP 1992's are concerned, it doesn't make a huge difference IMO.