Can somebody explain this bidding anomaly on CBID?

[craigchilds]

I searched previous topics on the vagarities of CBid bidding rules, but this still has me stumped. I found an auction for 3 boxes of Edge Counterfeits. User "MN of of MD" had a winning bid of $28 (starting bid) on two boxes. No other bids had been placed. I used Autobid to bid for the remaining box, maximum bid=$37.

This was the result:

1. MN $28 2 of 2
2. CC $28 1 of 1

I reflected on what a great deal this was, so then I edited my bid to increase the quantity from 1 to 3. The result was:

1. MN $37 2 of 2
2. CC $37 1 of 1

I understand why I didn't win one of the first two boxes. Bidder MN had an autobid of $37 or more, so he outbid me for both boxes. But I was the only bidder on the 3rd box. Shouldn't I have had the winning bid at the starting price of $28?

Nobody else bid on this lot, so I ended up with 1 box at $37. Not a bad price, but I keep thinking if I had left well enough alone, I could have had the same box for $28.

Can somebody explain how the math works with multiple quantities like this?

[cigordo]

Originally Posted by craigchilds

Nobody else bid on this lot

Don't be so sure about nobody bidding on the same lot, since the problem with CB is that they do not post a bidding history like most auction sites do (I wish they did). Most probably someone made higher bid on your lot, but not enough to outbid your auto-bid amount, therefor you ended paying a higher amount.

[Silound]

It's kinda hard to explain, but here's a brief rundown.


In a Yankee system, you bid against other bidders at dollar value. Once the auction is over, the items are sold to to the top bidders at the winning value. The data they show you is what would happen after the bidding is done.



For example, there are 10 lots of an item, and 3 people bid away on them. Person 2 has a max bid of $50, Person 1 has a max bid of $30 and Person 3 had some low bid that got pushed off the table.

Scenario 1 (Person 2 bid on 10/10, Person 1 bid on 3/10)
If Person 2 bid on all 10 lots, he wins all 10 lots at one bid increment over $30. If Person 2 only bid for 3 lots, he's out of luck because there was a higher max bid value than his $30.

Scenario 2 (Person 2 bid on 8/10, Person 1 bid on 3/10)
In this situation, Person 2 being the high bidder will win 8/10 lots. However, because he did not win them all, Person 1 will win 2 lots at his maximum bid of $30. Person 2 will be charged for 8 boxes at one increment higher bid than $30, because there was competition on one box.

Scenario 3 (Same as above, but Person 2 bids on only 7 lots)
In this situation, Person 2 would pay only $30, because there is no competition for any of his 8 boxes.


Hope that kinda helps explain it a bit more.

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by cigordo

Don't be so sure about nobody bidding on the same lot, since the problem with CB is that they do not post a bidding history like most auction sites do (I wish they did). Most probably someone made higher bid on your lot, but not enough to outbid your auto-bid amount, therefor you ended paying a higher amount.

No, after I made my bid, the new minimum bid became $40. Any subsequent bids would have been higher than my maximum, and I would have lost the box.

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by Silound

It's kinda hard to explain, but here's a brief rundown.


In a Yankee system, you bid against other bidders at dollar value. Once the auction is over, the items are sold to to the top bidders at the winning value. The data they show you is what would happen after the bidding is done.



For example, there are 10 lots of an item, and 3 people bid away on them. Person 2 has a max bid of $50, Person 1 has a max bid of $30 and Person 3 had some low bid that got pushed off the table.

Scenario 1 (Person 2 bid on 10/10, Person 1 bid on 3/10)
If Person 2 bid on all 10 lots, he wins all 10 lots at one bid increment over $30. If Person 2 only bid for 3 lots, he's out of luck because there was a higher max bid value than his $30.

Scenario 2 (Person 2 bid on 8/10, Person 1 bid on 3/10)
In this situation, Person 2 being the high bidder will win 8/10 lots. However, because he did not win them all, Person 1 will win 2 lots at his maximum bid of $30. Person 2 will be charged for 8 boxes at one increment higher bid than $30, because there was competition on one box.

Scenario 3 (Same as above, but Person 2 bids on only 7 lots)
In this situation, Person 2 would pay only $30, because there is no competition for any of his 8 boxes.


Hope that kinda helps explain it a bit more.

I don't think this explains what happened. In my case, user MN had a max bid higher than or equal to mine. I don't know his max bid, but let's just suppose it was $40. Since his bid was higher than mine, he wins his two boxes -- but he won them at my max bid price not one increment bid more than mine.

What happened to me doesn't fit any of your scenarios. Because there was no Person 3. Assume 2 bidders each bid on 5/10 lots, there are no bidders pushed off the table, why would the price go past starting bid price?

[ssutton219]

There is no bidding history...there could of been 10 bidders on those 3 boxes but the other 8 did not feel like they wanted to spend 38 or more for them...





Shawn

[bigben]

Here is what happened,

The first guy auto bid ABOVE you and BEFORE you.

When you Bid 37 the computer gave you two boxes at that 37 dollar price and push the first bidder out of the way. In effect for a split second you DID have both boxes but then the computer check the auto bids and rebid for the first guy over you. Due to his auto bid he immediately has priority as his bid is EQUAL or GREATER than yours and also came BEFORE you.

You effectively raised all prices up to 37 dollars.

And the thing to keep in mind is that every lot will sell at the SAME price. You will never have the same items in one lot sell for 2 different prices so they CANNOT sell you yours at 28 and his at 37 or any other numbers.

Your fault was in bidding for his second box, because that was the only box you BOTH wanted, and in bidding for that second box you raied the price of siad box to 37 dollars, go back and re read and you will see that since ALL boxes in this lot MUST sell for the SAME price you effectively raised the price of EVERy box.

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by bigben

go back and re read and you will see that since ALL boxes in this lot MUST sell for the SAME price you effectively raised the price of EVERy box.

This would certainly explain it. Except that I see lots on CBid all the time where the winners pay different prices. In this lot posted today, there are 101 boxes available. Current winning prices range from $32.99 to $38.99. (32.99 was the starting bid)

My understanding is that the bidders who bid $32.99 stay at that price until somebody bids them up. It's first come, first serve. So, the very first bidder will stay at $32.99 until all 99 other boxes are bid up, and then the 100th bid over $32.99 will either raise his price or knock him off the list.

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by ssutton219

There is no bidding history...there could of been 10 bidders on those 3 boxes but the other 8 did not feel like they wanted to spend 38 or more for them...

Shawn

Once I bid the amount of all 3 boxes to $37, the new minimum bid became $40 (because all bidding is done in $3 increments). It was impossible for there to have been any bids after mine that were lower than my max price of $37.

[bigben]

Originally Posted by craigchilds

This would certainly explain it. Except that I see lots on CBid all the time where the winners pay different prices. In this lot posted today, there are 101 boxes available. Current winning prices range from $32.99 to $38.99. (32.99 was the starting bid)

My understanding is that the bidders who bid $32.99 stay at that price until somebody bids them up. It's first come, first serve. So, the very first bidder will stay at $32.99 until all 99 other boxes are bid up, and then the 100th bid over $32.99 will either raise his price or knock him off the list.

Let me revise then, because your point is valid and I have seen the scenario your talking about. WHEN you see 100 in a lot and some are different prices, I BELEIVE this has to do with lack of competition, in other words the first bidder will always have the lowest price, if a new higher bid comes in bidder 99 loses first, if another bid comes in bidder 98 loses his spot and so on and so forth.... it is CERTAINLY not clear cut and I agree it seems strange when you have the 100 boxes scenario but in your case it makes sense to me.

[sclark7498]

bigben, I think your first premise was correct. The initial bid of two boxes was first so he would have priority til his auto-bid had been surpassed. Once that happened Craig, your bid would be first. At least that is how it was explained to me. Ejoy those smokes!

[pbrennan10]

I gave up early with Cbid due to losing 99% of auctions for not placing my bid first and because the prices just aren't that great.

The auction style is retarded imo

Whats wrong with ebay style?

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by sclark7498

bigben, I think your first premise was correct. The initial bid of two boxes was first so he would have priority til his auto-bid had been surpassed. Once that happened Craig, your bid would be first. At least that is how it was explained to me. Ejoy those smokes!

It doesn't make sense to me, because I was the only bidder on the third box. Regardless of what happened on Box #1 and Box #2, I should get the uncontested box at starting bid.

But, of course, that would have left us in a situation where the first bidder paid $37 for his two boxes (after his autobid beat my autobid) and I only paid $28 for my box (after losing on the first two boxes). The first bidder would be pissed that I bid up his amount on two boxes and then got the third at a huge discount. (Even though this is exactly how eBay dutch auctions work). I guess the CBid algorithm is designed to prevent this from occuring.

But what the algorithm has really done is convince me not to bid on multiple lots unless I am the first bidder.

[ChasDen]

What you are asking the computer to do is "reason" or think and it can not do that. There were 3 boxes and you placed a bid based on your first post for all 3 at a max bid of 37 when you changed your bid.

First you bid on one:

I used Autobid to bid for the remaining box, maximum bid=$37.

Then you changed it:

I reflected on what a great deal this was, so then I edited my bid to increase the quantity from 1 to 3.

So then the computer placed your bid. The bidder before you wanted 2, placed his bid before you so he gets priority until you bump him. He was either set at the same amount or higher and won his 2. What ever the bid increment is, the computer keeps bumping until it gets to the end. It cant go back and say you couldn't beat the first guy so lets drop the price back to where it was. When you changed the bid from 1 to 3 you changed it for all 3.

Chas

[Silound]

Originally Posted by craigchilds

I don't think this explains what happened. In my case, user MN had a max bid higher than or equal to mine. I don't know his max bid, but let's just suppose it was $40. Since his bid was higher than mine, he wins his two boxes -- but he won them at my max bid price not one increment bid more than mine.

What happened to me doesn't fit any of your scenarios. Because there was no Person 3. Assume 2 bidders each bid on 5/10 lots, there are no bidders pushed off the table, why would the price go past starting bid price?

I fits perfectly on number 3. You bid on ONE box, there was no competing bid for the other two boxes, therefore he paid the lowest winning price, which was equal to your minimum bid.