New Jersey Cigar Tax Proposed

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by RcktS4

So you are suggesting a vote for the greater of two evils?

No, but Corzine is the farthest from the core principles of Americanism than anyone else I can fathom - even further to the left than Kennedy, Boxer or Pelosi. That means although I think Forrester is a spineless idiot, he's at least that much closer to 1st Princples than Corzine, whose philosophies have more in common with Marx than Madison.

Originally Posted by RcktS4

an incorruptible libertarian would be ideal, but I am a pragmatist, and I don't see this happening. ?

Amen! The problem is that because we've been so conditioned to voting for what "we" want, rather than voting to preserve the freedoms of our neighbors that we're going to keep getting more of the same. Until we realize that voting not for what we want, but for what gets government out of our lives and out of our wallets, we're never going to get out from under.

Originally Posted by RcktS4

my views on gun control have been very much shifted by some discussions on here, coupled with some personal research (which is what really makes my decisions).

I commend you for your turnabout - it's not always easy to let go of those previously conceived notions. I think as you start looking around at what's happening in New Jersey, you'll start advocating less and less for the liberals, and more and more for preserving rights and de-escalating "programs" and policies that interfere with our rights. And a right lost to one, is a right lost to all.

Originally Posted by RcktS4

However, I am deeply troubled by the tendency for so many to be so deeply invested in the belief that they have a corner on the 'truth' market that any disagreement is a sign of ignorance and idiocy.

*snicker*. Yah, but when there's no logic to support the countervailing argument, what else can you call it? (to wit: "gun control")

I always vote for the candidate whose views favor more personal decision and less government meddling. Because when I do so, it gives YOU more choice. When someone votes for "funding" of "programs" that's just another way of forcing your fellow citizen into involuntary servitude because he can't opt out of the choice that was made for him by someone else.

By the way... there's a bill afoot in the legislature sponsored by Loretta Weinberg that would ban smoking in your own car. But... isn't that what "right thinking" people should believe? Isn't that what someone wants because they decided it was right for "themselves"? How long will it be before we can't even smoke a cigar in our own back yard?

Hope you're follwing my point here.

Been fun!

[RcktS4]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Been fun!

Indeed - Happy New Year!

R

[illuminatus]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Been Fun!

Originally Posted by RcktS4

Indeed - Happy New Year!

R

This right here is what I love so much about the Jungle. Everyone can have an opinion, we can have arguments, we can have disagreements, but it doesn't turn ugly and personal, it ends in respectfully disagreeing. Kudos to both Hammerhead and Raney for keeping it civil, you guys are great!

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by illuminatus

This right here is what I love so much about the Jungle. Everyone can have an opinion, we can have arguments, we can have disagreements, but it doesn't turn ugly and personal, it ends in respectfully disagreeing. Kudos to both Hammerhead and Raney for keeping it civil, you guys are great!

LOL!

You weren't here three months ago.

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

There's a reason why we're the laughing stock of the nation, and the level of corruption is the highest in the country.

If it weren't for NJ, who would those of us in Buffalo laugh at (besides Canada)?

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

If it weren't for NJ, who would those of us in Buffalo laugh at (besides Canada)?

Arkansaw, like the rest of the country. Interesting thread. Personally I think you take the situation in NJ a bit to the extreme though Rob. Taxes suck, but our education system really isn't all that bad. Inefficient maybe, but not bad.

What they need to do is something about the traffic. I got out at 2 today and i'm just now getting home from NYC. Almost 2 1/2 hour commute and I live maybe 30 minutes away

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by carbonbased_al

Arkansaw, like the rest of the country. Interesting thread. Personally I think you take the situation in NJ a bit to the extreme though Rob. Taxes suck, but our education system really isn't all that bad. Inefficient maybe, but not bad.

What they need to do is something about the traffic. I got out at 2 today and i'm just now getting home from NYC. Almost 2 1/2 hour commute and I live maybe 30 minutes away

Nah, I've been to Arkansas. It shines in comparison to Buffalo. New Jersey is another story.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by carbonbased_al

Personally I think you take the situation in NJ a bit to the extreme though Rob.

Joe, the first step in control is to get the controlled to believe it's not that bad.

Wake up, Joe... the Matrix has you.

Not everyone has true appreciation of what freedom really feels like, because far too many are under the yoke of legislative conditioning, and an abiding dependence on government. When you've had time enough to look over your shoulder and see a vast wasteland left behind from the carnage of greed and corruption foisted on us by legislators whose actions are validated by the votes of people who think they're doing something 'nice', or beause they made a decision for "themselves" then you might have a different view.

For instance, Raney has the right to his own decisions, but his vote for government funded stem cell research means I have to pay the freight, whether I agree with it or not. He just caused my taxes to go up. But at no time will the funders (taxpayers) of this research ever see the benefits of a return on our investment in the form of lower taxes or dividends.

The way our Founders intended it, if we believe in stem cell research, the answer is to take our own damned money and invest it in Merck, Pfizer, Novartis or another Pharma that is conducting research in that area. We put my money where our mouth is. Not force someone else to pay for what we personally think is a priorty. I'm fairly sure Adam Smith had something to say on the subject. Does anyone remember Dollar Votes, or are they not teaching that in High School or College anymore?

Things are as bad in New Jersey as I think, and they're going to get worse for those who cherish freedom, personal choice, limited government, private property, and a free market system. The gun issue is just a touchstone, becuse the 2nd Amendment is the right that guarantees the others, therefore it's a fulcrum for all other issues.

Perhaps one day either you or a loved one will be raped or injured by a criminal and left for dead because you weren't able to carry a sidearm to defend yourself because some legislators didn't think you were competent enough to carry a gun, despite the fact that 38 other states have proven that more guns equals less crime. Perhaps one day you'll not be able to smoke a cigar, because the police will be allowed to arrest you for smoking, just like they can now for talking on a cellphone or driving without a seat belt, because someone didn't like what you were doing because it was unhealthy.

Hopefully that day will never come for you, or any of us, if I can persuade you to realize that what you do in the voting booth has repurcussions beyond your personal lifestyle.

And while New Jersey is bad, and we have no business poking fun of Arkansas or even Canada, at least we still have reasonable grounds to mock France.

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Joe, the first step in control is to get the controlled to believe it's not that bad.

Wake up, Joe... the Matrix has you.

Not everyone has true appreciation of what freedom really feels like, because far too many are under the yoke of legislative conditioning, and an abiding dependence on government. When you've had time enough to look over your shoulder and see a vast wasteland left behind from the carnage of greed and corruption foisted on us by legislators whose actions are validated by the votes of people who think they're doing something 'nice', or beause they made a decision for "themselves" then you might have a different view.

For instance, Raney has the right to his own decisions, but his vote for government funded stem cell research means I have to pay the freight, whether I agree with it or not. He just caused my taxes to go up. But at no time will the funders (taxpayers) of this research ever see the benefits of a return on our investment in the form of lower taxes or dividends.

The way our Founders intended it, if we believe in stem cell research, the answer is to take our own damned money and invest it in Merck, Pfizer, Novartis or another Pharma that is conducting research in that area. We put my money where our mouth is. Not force someone else to pay for what we personally think is a priorty. I'm fairly sure Adam Smith had something to say on the subject. Does anyone remember Dollar Votes, or are they not teaching that in High School or College anymore?

Things are as bad in New Jersey as I think, and they're going to get worse for those who cherish freedom, personal choice, limited government, private property, and a free market system. The gun issue is just a touchstone, becuse the 2nd Amendment is the right that guarantees the others, therefore it's a fulcrum for all other issues.

Perhaps one day either you or a loved one will be raped or injured by a criminal and left for dead because you weren't able to carry a sidearm to defend yourself because some legislators didn't think you were competent enough to carry a gun, despite the fact that 38 other states have proven that more guns equals less crime. Perhaps one day you'll not be able to smoke a cigar, because the police will be allowed to arrest you for smoking, just like they can now for talking on a cellphone or driving without a seat belt, because someone didn't like what you were doing because it was unhealthy.

Hopefully that day will never come for you, or any of us, if I can persuade you to realize that what you do in the voting booth has repurcussions beyond your personal lifestyle.

And while New Jersey is bad, and we have no business poking fun of Arkansas or even Canada, at least we still have reasonable grounds to mock France.

Yeah, but what about the traffic?

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by carbonbased_al

Yeah, but what about the traffic?

LOL! Yer killin' me.

But what about France?

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

LOL! Yer killin' me.

But what about France?

France? Cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Rob, next time we herf i'm buying you a beer and giving you a good cuban.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by carbonbased_al

France? Cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Rob, next time we herf i'm buying you a beer and giving you a good cuban.

With any luck, I'll have a few to share, too. Ordered a box of Punch/Punch, Cohiba Distinguidos, and PSD4's on 12/6, they were shipped 12/7. Have yet to receive them. With any luck, they'll be here tomorrow... <fingerscrossed>

[vic_c]

The Democraps must be at it again! Tax Tax Tax !!!!!

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by vic_c

The Democraps must be at it again! Tax Tax Tax !!!!!

Did you even read the thread? The problems started with Whitman a Republican. It's not about one party versus another.

[joshua]

Well if little cigars and cigarillos means stuff like white owls and those flavored things with the plastic holders I see the urban youth smoking is what they are going to tax, then I wouldn't care so much. If this was on regular sized cigars that would be a bit annoying to not be able to stop in a local shop and pick something up if I wanted.

Like it says:

"Little cigar" or "cigarillo" means a cigar having a weight, excluding packaging, of no more than 3 pounds per 1,000 units, and resembling cigarettes in size and weight;

If I ever want a cigarillo I'll pick them up online if/when this passes.