Rush Limbaugh Discusses the Calabasas OUTDOOR Smoking Ban - 20 March 2006

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by rjose

I went to collage with many students who graduated from private schools and trust me their education was no better than mine. More often than not the top students in class were the products of the public education system.

This was too funny to let slip by. Yeah, I know it was probably a typo, but it's funny in the context of what we're discussing.

Yeah, your senior HS schedule looked like mine, circa 1979-80. Add German.

And I can confirm that my Ivy college education wasn't superior to that of most decent state universities. For the future Nobel Prizewinners who latched onto mentors as Freshman, maybe, but the average Ivy undergrad isn't much better and usually ends up being a considerably worse worker than the average B+ college kid from the midwest.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by rjose

I don't know were you went to school but my senior year in high school looked like this:

Calculus
Advanced Comp
Advanced Chem
Physics
Honors Government
AP Lit...

Two comments by way of points to make, here, that I think are interesting.

First, it's interesting that three of your classes listed are those where absolute right and wrong answers are required. However, the other two are where the bias is injected.

Second, you didn't list the classes where teachers like this spew boilerplate Marxist tripe which young impressionable minds take as fact, thereby distorting the reality of the world.

[rjose]

Originally Posted by Aaron

This was too funny to let slip by. Yeah, I know it was probably a typo, but it's funny in the context of what we're discussing.

Yeah, your senior HS schedule looked like mine, circa 1979-80. Add German.

Ah, curse my poor spelling .

Oh, I forgot Spanish, my knowledge of which is now reduced to "una cervesa por favor" and "donde esta el bano". I was in Mexico last week and it turns out that was all I really needed in the first place.

[rjose]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Two comments by way of points to make, here, that I think are interesting.

First, it's interesting that three of your classes listed are those where absolute right and wrong answers are required. However, the other two are where the bias is injected.

Second, you didn't list the classes where teachers like this spew boilerplate Marxist tripe which young impressionable minds take as fact, thereby distorting the reality of the world.

My government teacher was very liberal, practically radical but most students had no idea. No one got a free pass on their opinions with out facts to back them up. He would always play devils advocate and make you prove your point regardless of what side you were on. The teacher in the article seems like a jerk, regardless of his politics.

My point is that problem #1 with the American educational system is the student.

Problem #2 is that the brightest students graduating from college have no incentive to go into teaching (K-12).

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by rjose

My government teacher was very liberal, practically radical but most students had no idea. No one got a free pass on their opinions with out facts to back them up. He would always play devils advocate and make you prove your point regardless of what side you were on. The teacher in the article seems like a jerk, regardless of his politics.

My point is that problem #1 with the American educational system is the student.

Problem #2 is that the brightest students graduating from college have no incentive to go into teaching (K-12).

Yeah, I had one of those teachers, too. The kind that forced everyone to be critical and support their opinions, except him, because he "had all the answers", and the bullypulpit of his position to beat you over the head and intimidate you into agreeing with him.

#1 doesn't fix the problem, it fixes the blame. It begs the question about why it's easy to blame the student when it's the job of the institution to set the standard and police itself, and inspire students to achieve. Rhetorical answer: why bother when there's a policy of social promotion and no reward for excellence any more than there is for a teacher?

#2 shouldn't be a problem if the "industry" of public education were a free market system where payscales for excellence were the same as they are in the private sector. I'll leave it to you, to figure out why other trades and industries excel when there's no government intervention, but why, after over 50 years of Democrats and Unions controlling the educational system in America, our system is horrific, and we find ourselves blaming the student.

Oh, and if it carries any weight or validity with you at all, I'm the son of a retired educator who couldn't wait to get out of the system after 30 years because the bureacracy of the school district verily rewarded political correctness and cronyism over substance and hard work. My mother spent decades teaching 10 hours a day, then work for hours at home on new and engaging lesson plans only to see lazier colleagues be paid on the same scale for doing nothing but the bare minimum.

So, you might say I have some firsthand experience in this area from both the inside and the outside, looking both ways.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by rjose

My government teacher was very liberal, practically radical but most students had no idea. No one got a free pass on their opinions with out facts to back them up. He would always play devils advocate and make you prove your point regardless of what side you were on. The teacher in the article seems like a jerk, regardless of his politics.

My point is that problem #1 with the American educational system is the student.

Problem #2 is that the brightest students graduating from college have no incentive to go into teaching (K-12).

I'd argue that problem #1 is the student's parent. Quite often it's a Vitamin "No" deficiency. Parents don't demand standards of behavior from their kids in the classroom. Many parents are too busy being their kid's friend and not a parent. I also blame the parent for not demanding the right to monitor the subject matter in subjective courses (history, social studies, English) to ensure that there isn't indoctrination masking as teaching. Get rid of ALL courses under the "critical thinking" umbrella, which are typically highly politically charged and replace with a course in strict logic. (I'd suggest withholding voting rights from anyone who can't prove they are capable of doing 8th grade level pre-algebra since they are too innumerate to vote for anyone who has the power to levy taxes, but I'm outnumbered by people who think they have a statistical chance at winning lotteries.)

#2 is largely solved by vouchers.

This thread is WAY off the Calabasas issue and probably needs to continue in Anything But Cigars, if at all.

[IHT]

Originally Posted by Aaron

This thread is WAY off the Calabasas issue and probably needs to continue in Anything But Cigars, if at all.

no, please.

if it stays on topic about the outdoor smoking ban, then this is where it belongs.

[rjose]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

#2 shouldn't be a problem if the "industry" of public education were a free market system where payscales for excellence were the same as they are in the private sector. I'll leave it to you, to figure out why other trades and industries excel when there's no government intervention, but why, after over 50 years of Democrats and Unions controlling the educational system in America, our system is horrific, and we find ourselves blaming the student.

Todays students are lazy, the current generation of youth are lazy and getting lazier. If you want a good education it is out there to be had and it is free.

[rjose]

Originally Posted by IHT

no, please.

if it stays on topic about the outdoor smoking ban, then this is where it belongs.

My position on all smoking bans as stated in another thread.

If there is this much demand for smoke-free places why don't we see entrepreneurs opening up smoke-free establishments in cities that still allow smoking? Would that not be to their economic advantage? If everyone hates smoke and you have the only smoke-free bar in town wouldn’t it be packed every night of the week?

Until I see this happening I say .

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by rjose

Todays students are lazy, the current generation of youth are lazy and getting lazier. If you want a good education it is out there to be had and it is free.

You keep circling around the root issue. You again haven't addressed WHY students have become lazy.

I posit that the near-Marxism that's infested our academic institutions has reached epidemic proportions.

It has created an environment and policies that foster laziness on the part of both the academic staff because there are no rewards for achievement or quality because everyone is on the same tenured payscale.

And it's fostered laziness on the part of the students because the vogue of social promotion passes kids off from one grade to the next despite their failing grades which are compensated for by "weighting" so as not to reflect badly on the district or instructors so they can sweep their failures under the rug.

[rjose]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

You keep circling around the root issue. You again haven't addressed WHY students have become lazy.

I posit that the near-Marxism that's infested our academic institutions has reached epidemic proportions.

It has created an environment and policies that foster laziness on the part of both the academic staff because there are no rewards for achievement or quality because everyone is on the same tenured payscale.

And it's fostered laziness on the part of the students because the vogue of social promotion passes kids off from one grade to the next despite their failing grades which are compensated for by "weighting" so as not to reflect badly on the district or instructors so they can sweep their failures under the rug.

Its a lazy generation in general, its not just school, its work, its physical activity, its watching TV all day, its playing play station all day, its eating fast food for every meal, its expecting everything to be handed to them because it has been, its the brand new car on their 16th birthday

I'm all for rewarding good teachers and rooting out the bad ones.

At the end of the day its personal responsibility, knowing that education will be its own reward and responsible parenting that will lead to a good education. It starts there, everything else is frosting on the cake.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by IHT

no, please.

if it stays on topic about the outdoor smoking ban, then this is where it belongs.

Actually the majority of the recent posts are about education policy.

[Aaron]

Just created a visual aid.

[jgros001]

To get on topic, this is insane. I can understand an argument about public health and interstate commerce when dealing with smoking indoors - I do not agree with infringing on private ownership rights, but can understand the argument. Now outside bans are ridiculous. There are so many more pressing issues for government to concern itself with than to police smoking outside - it is an unreasonable infringement. There is no argument that I have heard that can justify banning outdoor smoking.

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by rjose

Its a lazy generation in general...

Oh, fer cryin' out loud... there you go again shifting the issue, and avoiding the question.

Let's just forget it.