The B&M dilemma

[jim@mindofmen.com]

Okay, first of all, let me start by saying I do want to support my local B&M when possible, but from a cost perspective, that can get to be an expensive thing to do.

Here is my situation. I have essentially three choices for "local" B&M. The first is a fully stocked cigar store the next town over.

The second is the cigar department at the local liquor store that I frequent. They are pretty much set up for individual stick purchases although I'm sure that I can make box purchases there if I want.

The third is a B&M up in New Hampshire that also runs a brisk mail order business so I don't have to drive 45 miles to pick up smokes.

The problem with the first two is that they are located in my home state of MA, which has an extra tax on cigars. So, for example, an Ashton VSG torpedo that can be had for maybe $11 or so from the mail order place (or even less on the web) costs $13 in the local Liquor store.

Now, for an individual stick purchase, I don't mind paying an extra couple of bucks to support the local guy and get the convenience of immediate pickup, however if I want to make a box purchase, this can add $40 to the cost of the cigars.

I want to support the local guys, but at some point, I have to draw the line.

Furthermore, I get most if not all of my suggestions for smokes from podcasts and this board, so I certainly am better informed than the guys at the liquor store and have not been overly impressed with the advice at the local cigar store.

Given all that, what would you do? Does buying mail order from the guys up in NH considered still supporting the "local" B&M or am I being a weasel?

Thoughts on this?

[iloveclmore]

I don't think you're being a weasel. This is a simple concept of supply and demand. The consumer is always going to seek out the lowest price for their goods. However, I do think it is very noble and admirable of you to frequent your local B&Ms though they are more expensive. I say, for a couple of single sticks they are the way to go. But as for boxes, stick to whats cheap.

[jitzy]

look I am a firm believer in supporting the local B&M but like you said box purchases can add up to alot of money I too will by singles from my local spots but for boxes I go online.

[LkyLindy]

Jim--

This is always a dilemma-Unfortunately it is one that the B&M's can't win--The web has given a new meaning to the word competition esp with no taxes--

The local guys have to give extreme service and info to make it these days and provide a comfortable smoking arena(with all the anti smoking laws this is a big plus for them)-
However as far as box sales go--$30 -$50 or more off their prices is hard to resist

[smokinj]

Originally Posted by LkyLindy

Jim--

This is always a dilemma-Unfortunately it is one that the B&M's can't win--The web has given a new meaning to the word competition esp with no taxes--

The local guys have to give extreme service and info to make it these days and provide a comfortable smoking arena(with all the anti smoking laws this is a big plus for them)-
However as far as box sales go--$30 -$50 or more off their prices is hard to resist

I'm the same as Joe and agree 100% w/ Harvey too on this one

[aljrka]

It's your hard earned money, do what's best in your heart.

[hiway_86-cl]

I agree with everyone above. You are definately not a weasel!! I like to support my local B&Ms, but when it comes to boxes, I will go with what is cheapest

[Phantom57-cl]

Several local shops around here, and I don't mind paying a little extra if they have what I want. Therein lies the problem. They are not exactly on the cutting edge and rarely have what I regularly smoke. Some of them claim to stock some of the desirable stuff, ie VSG, Opus etc, but never have any unless they are hiding them for their buds. I smoke a fair amount and typically buy 40-50 boxes a year, so I could at least be a decent customer for them, but I am forced to the internet to get what I want. No remorse here.

[hiway_87]

I go to the local b&m's for the single smokes I need to pick up but when it comes to buying boxes i tend to stray towards the online stuff....plain and simple it saves money. we are all working hard for our money..and no you are not a weasel. more smokes for the money..a smart buy!

[jitzy]

when locals stop charging top and I mean top dollar for the "good stuff" $15 to $25 for padrons and vsg's it is out of hand sure some place keep it reasonable but others make it hard to buy stuff like that hell I just paid $13 a piece for rocky patel decade torps. could I have got them online sure should I have you bet. but I like having a place to hang out but if they go out of business will I stop smoking NO I just wish they would start to be more competitive. now before some of you guys start chiming in and say you need to buy from your local B&M remember the places we order from are your local B&M couse there prices are so good, just look at the houston crew they have so many great places to buy from down there. Now I understand they cant compete with the online vendors as far as price for some things but they need to do something to keep themselves in buisiness we do want them here but we want some kind of deal close to what we know we could get them for.

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by jitzy

when locals stop charging top and I mean top dollar for the "good stuff" $15 to $25 for padrons and vsg's it is out of hand sure some place keep it reasonable but others make it hard to buy stuff like that hell I just paid $13 a piece for rocky patel decade torps. could I have got them online sure should I have you bet. but I like having a place to hang out but if they go out of business will I stop smoking NO I just wish they would start to be more competitive. now before some of you guys start chiming in and say you need to buy from your local B&M remember the places we order from are your local B&M couse there prices are so good, just look at the houston crew they have so many great places to buy from down there. Now I understand they cant compete with the online vendors as far as price for some things but they need to do something to keep themselves in buisiness we do want them here but we want some kind of deal close to what we know we could get them for.

You have to keep in mind the cigar tax in Texas is around 1 cent a stick, so it is a lot easier to support your local B&M when the tobacco taxes doesn't take the cigar out of your price range.

[jitzy]

Brian no doubt that is one of the bigest factors in the whole equation the one point I tried to make with that some people give an attitude that your not getting everything from a local B&M when there locals are to ones doing so great couse of there internet business. there are ways for our locals to compete they just choose not to. Maybe give a cigar for buying a box but they wont even do that. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying I wont shop for stuff localy I have 1 place near me that has a great lounge (just ask Harvey) and the owner does the right thing and gives you your first drink on the house but they are few and far between and those are the things that keep me going in there and buying singles but I cant see spending $30 to $50 a box more for a free drink it wont cut it they need to figure something else out.

[Webmeister]

I am a firm believer that the local B&M definitely has a niche to fill. For a moment, let's draw an analogy with a bar. I would go to a bar to hang out with friends and have a good time over some drinks. Now I am paying more for the liquor in those drinks than I do for a bottle, but you're also paying for the atmosphere, a place to get together, the personal service, etc. If I decide I want to buy a bottle of my favorite adult beverage, I'm not going to buy it from a bar - I find the best price I can at a liquor store.

Back to B&M's... I listen to podcasts, I pick up recommendations from CL and reading the trade rags. If I want to try a single stick or fiver, chances are the shipping alone may make it cost-prohibitive to order online. If I want to hang out with friends on a regular basis - or run into BOTL's I've never met before, enjoy watching a game, talking about various and sundry topics, the local B&M is the place to be. I can run down the street and try that single stick a few times before deciding if a box purchase is in my future. I can discover new cigars I may not have heard of. All good examples of the niches that the B&M can fill.

[jitzy]

Originally Posted by Webmeister

I am a firm believer that the local B&M definitely has a niche to fill. For a moment, let's draw an analogy with a bar. I would go to a bar to hang out with friends and have a good time over some drinks. Now I am paying more for the liquor in those drinks than I do for a bottle, but you're also paying for the atmosphere, a place to get together, the personal service, etc. If I decide I want to buy a bottle of my favorite adult beverage, I'm not going to buy it from a bar - I find the best price I can at a liquor store.

Back to B&M's... I listen to podcasts, I pick up recommendations from CL and reading the trade rags. If I want to try a single stick or fiver, chances are the shipping alone may make it cost-prohibitive to order online. If I want to hang out with friends on a regular basis - or run into BOTL's I've never met before, enjoy watching a game, talking about various and sundry topics, the local B&M is the place to be. I can run down the street and try that single stick a few times before deciding if a box purchase is in my future. I can discover new cigars I may not have heard of. All good examples of the niches that the B&M can fill.

Great post

[boxer757]

I agree webby, good post!


I understand buying boxes online to save $40+ for sure and there are some cigars I like that alot of b&ms don't carry. But I will always support my local shop as long as they are good to me. I routinely go up there and buy 3 or 4 cigars throughout the day/night and I may end up paying $10 or so more total but I have been going to those guys since I turned 18 and I love the atmosphere, I would be devistated if they went under!

I bought a box of Lot 23's from them monday night. I paid about $10 more than I would have online and I still would have gotten the free Perdomo Vector lighter online as well as free shipping but for a mere $10 more I will happily support my b&m!


I believe that internet retailers and b&m's can exist together indefinately if people have the right perspective.



I will say one thing, the owner of my b&m asked me what I would think about a "cutting fee" where you have to pay $1 to smoke a cigar in the shop that you did not buy there. I told him I though it would be suicide. He said alot of shops have started imposing a cutting fee that is even more expensive. I told him that I would see it as an insult because I spend plenty of money there and if I want to light up a stick that I did not purchase from him every now and then I should be able to do so in good faith that I am going to come in next time and buy from him...