B & M vs. Internet retailer

[JWSmokey-cl]

Most of the local B&Ms in my area are turning into head shops. The oppressive taxes and anti smoking laws here in California are making it harder for them to do business. My favorite local smoke shop recently changed ownership. They changed their non-tobacco items to now include bongs, what look like crack pipes, and hookahs. The previous owner stocked lots of humidors, ashtrays, and the like. The current owner does not even smoke cigars!

[El Lechero]

I agree with Rhonda to the fullest!

[Reverend Mike]

As a a business person who manages a B&M and co-owns an online store I may have a little perspective on this.

It does cost money to keep this whole cigar lounge going -- we have three LCD TVs, lots of leather sofas, etc... So, if you're really having a good time coming and sitting, a little extra per stick for a few isn't too much to ask.

We generally don't care if someone comes in and lights-up a cigar they bring with them. We may be a little out of the ordinary, but we figure that someone that frequents our lounge will do some buying at the B&M -- and, in almost all instances, they do.

We discount box purchases (20 or more sticks -- mix and match or single box). We also discount more for locker holders. Those discounts, combined with show specials, usually make our deals pretty comparable to many online packages (except the CRAZY ones.)

Where much of our business comes from is singles -- a handful of singles or a few of one cigar. I have one guy that comes-in 4 times a week and buys a single Ashton Churchill. I keep telling him I can save him money if he rents a locker and buys them by the box, but he just likes doing it his way.

Where the "outside" smoke comes in really handy is in finding-out about new stuff and getting in touch with our customer's wants. If a guy comes in with a CI blowout pack and tells me about this great CAO VR he's smoking, I can decide if I want to bring those on board or not. If I put a hard fast rule in place about outside cigars, I might never get a shot at that business for him or the others that might enjoy his selection.

Also, as big a community as this is, most cigar smokers don't buy online. They aren't as passionate about their hobby as we are here. They don't smoke 25 cigars a week -- maybe 25 every two months or even a year. They don't want a humidor or storage issues. They are paying for the access and the immediatecy of cigars they can touch and feel.

But, ultimately, it's a small world this cigar thing and we are all in it togehter. There's plenty of business for all of us if we do a good job at what we do best. In the case of the B&M it's service and party hosting. In the case of online stores it's price.

A good B&M will be great at both in their appropriate worlds.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't think I'll be ordering anything from a website unless it's something my local shop doesn't have like Gurkhas. I really like my local shop and would rather support them. I've been getting to know the guys there more and more and would rather give them my money.

And I hate to be such a newbie, but what does B&M stand for?:support:

[JonDot]

Originally Posted by Rusty Shackleford

I don't think I'll be ordering anything from a website unless it's something my local shop doesn't have like Gurkhas. I really like my local shop and would rather support them. I've been getting to know the guys there more and more and would rather give them my money.

And I hate to be such a newbie, but what does B&M stand for?:support:

B&M=Brick & Mortar.I have a great relationship with my local B&M.I usually buy singles there & if I want a box & can find it online cheaper they wil generally match the price.The only time I buy online if it is something they do not carry.

[Wideboy]

I usually find that I have to split my purchases between the internet and the local B&M. Mostly because of selection. I find the new blends and brands online often months before they make it locally. Sometimes it is a matter of price, but usually I will spend a bit more to support a local business person.

[sseagle]

Luckily I am in an area where there is a glut of cigar stores (too many fancypantses ) I love the immediacy of the B&M, but there is that occasional sampler that just grabs me online. Recently I've been trying to check out all of the stores in the area, just last week I hit two new-to-me stores, and I will definitely be making the drive back to Tinderbox again, because the lovely man working there was very helpful, he knew his product, and HE CHECKED MY ID!!!

[silentjon-cl]

I buy from both. I can some great deals over the internet. However I buy a good amount of cigars from the local B&M. The B&M offers a great place just to relax and smoke some cigars with your friends. The B&M is also a nice refuge in the winter.

[DBCcigar]

Originally Posted by bigslim

I understand how important it is to support local B&M's, but how do you handle limited selection and higher prices?

Next question if you purchase a smoke from somewhere other than the B&M is it acceptable to smoke in the store?

Well.... My opinion.... If the shop does not carry what you like and will not carry what you want, then go elsewhere. If there is no "Elsewhere", then you have no other choice than to buy your stash from an Internet store. I do not think there is anything wrong with buying some stuff on-line, but supporting your favorite shop is important. But again, if you can't find what you want, you have no other choice and you have to result to the Net.

However, if you want to hang out in the shop with the big boys, you need to buy a stick. Not saying you are like this, but a little while back I had a couple of guys who never bought $hit. They'd bring their cigars in and talk about the great deal they found on JR or some other site. After mentioning this to them and explaining to them that they are enjoying the TV and the air conditioning because people BUY cigars here, they still did not get it and were soon kicked out and asked not to come back.

[cybervee-cl]

Originally Posted by DBCcigar

However, if you want to hang out in the shop with the big boys, you need to buy a stick.

Agreed. No one brings their own food to a restaurant because of the nice tables and atmosphere, and no one should expect that it is ok to bring your own cigars in to a b&m because of the nice cushy chairs and friendly smokers. If you are a regular and buy from the shop often, or have a locker, etc., that's different.

The 'local' b&m for me is 45 minutes away in a part of town I don't frequent. The only reason I would be on this side of town is to go to the b&m. Because of this I can only go during events. And I only go for the events of brands I already know I like. I always spend money at the events, and always enjoy seeing the fellow b's otl and other CL members that are there. If the store was 10 minutes from my house they would have to throw me out at closing time several nights a week. Because of the distance and time involved I buy most of my cigars online.

[ngetal]

sadly, B&M doesn't appear to be an option for me - with the implimentation of some extremely oppressive tobacco regulations as of the end of May, stores in Ontario aren't even allowed to display any tobacco products any more so if I want to buy anything I need to know ahead of time what I want, go in and tell the clerk who then gets it from the humidor after I pay for it. (yep, that's right... can't go in the store humi anymore, can't even see the sticks before you buy them) :arghhhh: as for having a stick at the shop -- oflmao: not on your life... public smoking in Ontario is a thing of the past, it's so tight that not only can you not smoke in restaurants and bars, in some cases you can't even light up on their outdoor patios (can smoke under an umbrella, but not under an awning) :arghhhh:

mind you, there really aren't any "decent" shops anywhere nearby to my home town - I'd have to drive the better part of an hour to something in Toronto - haven't done that, as I'm still new enough to the game that I don't know where they're hiding, so I've just been buying online

I'm envious of all you folks, sitting in them big leather chairs at your local B&M...

[MsprinM]

I only get to smoke a few times a week so I usually buy local because it..
1 Supports the local economy as a whole not just the B&M.
2 Supports the B&M which provides a service to the smoking community.
3 I get to decide what looks good at the time and go with it.
4. I hate buying things online even if it saves me 3-4 bucks id rather have it when I want it.

[mitro-cl]

I look at it this way: I love being able to go somewhere with people who share my interests. It's better than sitting in my garage and have my wife give me the "evil eye".

So in order to make sure I can continue having a place to go, I try to give the B&M my fair share of support. I don't buy boxes every time I walk in the door, but I always buy a handful of usually higher priced sticks. I still have spent the vast majority of my money online, but I'm not a rich man so I need to get the most for my money.

As far as the limited selection issue, I can't help there. Burning Leaf has a great selection and if they usually get the latest and hottest stuff and at a good price. (Jamal should be paying for this kind of advertisement, eh Ben?) However, if there is something that they don't have, I don't feel the least bit guilty ordering online.

Like I said, if I go to the B&M I generally bring some of my own (often to give to others) but I always make sure I buy atleast as many as I plan on smoking there.

[farka-cl]

Thought I'd chime in here, because this has been an issue of debate, and sometimes consternation, at my second home, Centro Cigars in Lawrence.

First, for selection. May sound élitist to some, but I smoke through dozens of samples, share many with my customers, and analyze everything from construction to room aroma to price point. If a cigar doesn't make the cut -- and space and money is understandably limited in a local business -- then, it doesn't make the cut. I can't tell you how many lines, which will remain nameless, have had a relatively interesting demand level yet didn't approach the threshold because, upon careful analysis, it either: a. wasn't quite up to par with what we do carry; b. the distribution would be a headache, or; c. when it came right down to it, the cigar was a bloody rip off.

I take pride in my work, and do everything within my power to earn the trust and respect of everyone that walks through our door, and I'm not about to let years of honest appraisal go by the wayside to sell someone on a twelve dollar dog.

Now, to price point. It is understandable that the lure of a $250 box for $125 is just too good to pass up. Local retailers (I can't even imagine how tough it is in a place like Washington state) have the burdens of taxes and overhead, which naturally inflate the prices. There isn't a whole lot we can do about that, but when I can, I certainly make every effort to compete with internet pricing. This sometimes means a better deal than I should give, but it is worth it to keep the doors open. One thing my customers get that no website can deliver is fastidious service. I often say, what website is going to replace a plugged cigar or let you change your mind on the unsmoked ones after purchase? Thankfully, this seldom comes up, because we steer our people in the right direction and we don't carry lines with construction issues. Of course, it happens, but every caution is taken to minimize it. Also, go ahead and ask Holt's to grab you a Coke Zero and a Sunday Times. Not to be snarky, but you get my drift.

Finally, to the smoking of out of the shop stuff.

I have to admit that I don't like it, especially the "forbidden fruit" that doesn't even help out the companies we forge relationships with. That being said, I can think of about a dozen examples of someone doing it that didn't bother me in the least. It all depends on who you are and how you do it. The cigar shop is a community, after all, and experimenting and shooting the bull over a good stick is part of the process. There are big differences between the regular and faithful customer partaking of a new line, or a gift, or something bought elsewhere (sidebar here: when it comes from other regional retailers, like Diebel's, it doesn't bother me a bit, because we're all in it together to some extent) and the guy who comes in once a month, declares to me he purchases the majority of his cigars online, picks up a Don Tómas Robusto and expects the same level of courtesy as the regulars get. He gets it, because that's the way we do it, but put yourself in the retailer's shoes, and ask if you'd like that kind of thing going on in your own business.

There is a parallel argument that speaks to the atomization of society, the decline in community, &c., but I'll spare that one.

I'd just say that you should talk to your local shop and see what they can do for you. We're not in it to lose money, but there's always something that can sweeten the pot for the customer, who is our first priority. Ask anyone who shops at Centro Cigars, and I doubt I will be contradicted in the level of service and expertise we provide. If your local shop doesn't provide the highest level of service, then demand it of them. Don't go too far, we're human, but your satisfaction is our reward.

Oh, and when I tell the joke about the bear who declares "You ain't in this for the hunting, are ya', buddy?" it is a lot funnier than in print.

[mountchuck-cl]

My opinion pretty much matches what everyone else has said: if you smoke in the shop, buy something. Maybe not every time you visit, but fairly often.

I also have an opinion on the flip side. I visited a B&M about an hour away because of an event they were having. I checked out the rules if you had a locker, and was really irritated. You are restricted to only storing cigars AND accessories purchased at that store. To me that is completely asinine. People pay for lockers so they can store their cigars. It shouldn't matter where they came from. And that goes double for accessories. A serious cigar smoker has more than likely dropped $50+ on a cutter and another $50+ on a lighter. They should be able to stow those there if they so choose. Not the customers fault the B&M has only been open for 2 years.