Do not Support Scottish Tobacco in Atlanta

[mash]

Originally Posted by Cypress

I am trying to be fair here and not lock a thread because of my political views. I didn't want to piss anyone off by closing a thread especially since no one has reported it as of yet. I have been watching this thread all morning since it has been posted and so far it has not reached a level where it is ugly. As stated by the OP he was merely telling a story and part of it was his opinion on what the nationality of the owner. Would it be any different if he would have said Anglo-Saxon. America is a beautiful place where even an Asian descent person can own a successful Mexican or Cajun restaurant. Unfortunately if we are going to talk about SCHIP in this board then automatically it is political. What i have read in the statements that have been posted is that because he does not like the SCHIP tax he does not like anyone who supports it rather than just pin pointing it to just one person.

Fair enough. Hopefully lesson learned here. The store owner's nationality was of absolutely no relevance here and I don't buy the subsequent explanation. Same with the political bent. This is a cigar forum, this kind of stuff just leads to trouble.

[Brule]

There seems to be this accepted axiom that in choosing how to spend one's money, political leanings of the retailer should not matter. That's crazy. I don't want my money eventually going toward causes that I don't like and the OP's argument on that fact seems fine to me. The "middle eastern" thing really makes no matter one way or the other. There's no reason to assume the OP's comment was anything more than a casual observation and a bit of a stretch to consider it inherently racist.

Just my 2 cents...

[uptown_cigar]

Each and every one of us has the right to support or deny support to any business for ANY reason...political or not. That's the beauty of this country and the freedoms we have. If you choose to boycott a business because of their beliefs, go for it. There are others out there. With that being said, there are businesses out there that I choose to boycott, and others I choose to support for a variety of reasons.

[Plazma]

Originally Posted by Cypress

I am trying to be fair here and not lock a thread because of my political views. I didn't want to piss anyone off by closing a thread especially since no one has reported it as of yet. I have been watching this thread all morning since it has been posted and so far it has not reached a level where it is ugly. As stated by the OP he was merely telling a story and part of it was his opinion on what the nationality of the owner. Would it be any different if he would have said Anglo-Saxon. America is a beautiful place where even an Asian descent person can own a successful Mexican or Cajun restaurant. Unfortunately if we are going to talk about SCHIP in this board then automatically it is political. What i have read in the statements that have been posted is that because he does not like the SCHIP tax he does not like anyone who supports it rather than just pin pointing it to just one person.

True but would you refer to said restaurant owner as "some kind of Asian" person? I'm not middle eastern and even I found that a bit aggressive.

[d_day]

I think it's a little over the top to stop frequenting a store based on who the owner voted for for president. Every candidate has a platform that they run on. Most people will agree with some parts of it, and then agree with other parts of the other candidate's platform. Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person. When making my decision to vote, SCHIP wasn't even a consideration.

[Plazma]

Originally Posted by Brule

There seems to be this accepted axiom that in choosing how to spend one's money, political leanings of the retailer should not matter. That's crazy. I don't want my money eventually going toward causes that I don't like and the OP's argument on that fact seems fine to me. The "middle eastern" thing really makes no matter one way or the other. There's no reason to assume the OP's comment was anything more than a casual observation and a bit of a stretch to consider it inherently racist.

Just my 2 cents...

Not saying that the OP is racist, that would require much more proof BUT.

"The shop owner is of middle eastern descent."

"The shop owner is some sort of middle easterner."

See how different they sound when you read them? Try saying it aloud.

Fortunately what people are saying is right, the man has the right to boycott the tobacco shop in question. Likeminded people have the right to agree with the OP as well. Just as others have the right to never step foot in a shop with a "McCain/Palin" sign up in their window. One of the reasons I love this country is that we're allowed to resist and protest.

[Cypress]

Originally Posted by Plazma

True but would you refer to said restaurant owner as "some kind of Asian" person? I'm not middle eastern and even I found that a bit aggressive.

You are correct, the tone was not the best of choice, however there are 47 different Asian Countries which does include part of the middle east.

[Acesfull]

Originally Posted by d_day

Most people will agree with some parts of it, and then agree with other parts of the other candidate's platform. Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person.

I agree to a point d_day but SCHIP is going to cause alot of smaller businesses to go under due to the increase compiled with the current economic state. Its not a good time to pass that tax. If their business is their livelihood they should have thought harder. I've talked to a few owners of B&M's that I frequent at home about this via email and this seemed to be the consensus. When I placed my huge order even the guy on the phone commented that he is getting alot of them due to SCHIP and expecting business to slow down alot come April 1st. Here is an excerpt from an email

I asked..

Also how much is SCHIP going to effect prices? I heard it capped at $.43 per stick. How true is that?

He replied

Nick,
The Federal excise tax levied by SCHIP is 52.75% of the manufacturers cost, capped at 40.26 cents per stick. But that's where the tax starts. After manufacturer and retail mark-ups, we estimate that the effect at the stick level will be anywhere from .90 cents to $1.10 per cigar. We think it will effect our box prices by around $15.00 a box. These are just estimates because we haven't seen any new price sheets from our vendors yet. Overall, it's not a very pretty picture. The industry estimates that 25% of smaller, independent tobacco shops will go out of business this year.

[phatmax]

Originally Posted by Plazma

Not saying that the OP is racist, that would require much more proof BUT.

"The shop owner is of middle eastern descent."

"The shop owner is some sort of middle easterner."

See how different they sound when you read them? Try saying it aloud.

Fortunately what people are saying is right, the man has the right to boycott the tobacco shop in question. Likeminded people have the right to agree with the OP as well. Just as others have the right to never step foot in a shop with a "McCain/Palin" sign up in their window. One of the reasons I love this country is that we're allowed to resist and protest.

Did not mean to hit any sensitive nerves with the way I wrote it. It was certainly not meant to have a negative, I thought it was simply an odd combination, as every other tobacco shop I have ever been in is owned or manned buy older white guys (mostly with facial hair too)

I hope that does not mean I am facial-hairist... (joking)

Now, if I dumped out the rag-head, camel-jockey line... Well..... that would be pretty obvious. (which I am not, I am just demonstrating the difference between a description and racial epithats)

Simply seeing something and describing it, should not be considered as an overt or covert attempt at racism.

I am short. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people describe me as "the short guy". I don't take offense, because I am usually the shortest person in a group.

When people point out my wife to others, they usually say "the black girl with the _____ color shirt on" It is simply an observation of the easiest description.

I frequent a Halal restaurant by work (that has awesome food, btw) and it is run by a middle-eastern family, they could be Lebanese, Turkish, Iranian, I have not a clue, but they are super nice and good cooks. But all I am doing is giving a good desciption to let the reader get a fuller picture.

Could you imagine reading a good book, then going back and removing any sort of descriptive words about people, just in case it would offend someone. Literature would pretty much suck. This applies to real literature and not the writings of whacko Skinheads.

All in all, the store was over-priced, the owner was...presumptive to say the least, and on my part I feel that he has done damage to himself and to all others with his uninformed choices. It may just be a principle thing, and some people might not care about that, which is fine. I do and I hope that others do and when the time comes we can band together and protect our rights as Americans to smoke a stogie or light a pipe, without being taxed to death or made to look like villians.

I hope that the store owner comes around to and decides to fight unfair taxation and treatment of a selected group.

[JCK]

I have my own personal reasons to stop supporting Scottish Tobaccos neither related to race or politics. I haven't walked in that shop in a year or so simply because I don't agree with the pricing structure.

While most pedestrian smokes are priced moderately, all of the HTF cigars, i.e. Fuente special releases are astronomical. $44 for a Casa Fuente Robusto for example.

There are so many shops in Atlanta that I have options. If Scottish Tobaccos hasn't sunk yet due to it's pricing structure, I don't think SCHIP is going to put them under either.

I believe this shop has agreements with some local lounges to provide the cigars. I'm not sure about this, but I do know one of the girls that worked there also was a cigar girl at a local club.

The owner of the shop is actually a likeable fellow on the hustle, but you have to realize his point of view.

[wolfmonk]

If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?

[Buddha024]

Originally Posted by d_day

Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person. When making my decision to vote, SCHIP wasn't even a consideration.

Exactly what I have been thinking d_day. I do not agree with the SCHIP tax, but that would not, and did not, affect how I voted for President.

[Acesfull]

Originally Posted by wolfmonk

If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?

Glad ya asked....

Another when asked that exact question another B&M owner answered it with this..

Handmades are by manufacturer/distributor. Some companies are absorbing the costs, some are sticking to the tax, others are adding the tax and their percentage mark-up. Basically, the more hands that touch the product before it gets to you, the more chance you will see pricing go higher. Most B&Ms have no intentions of raising prices based on percentage, they are sticking with their current margins so any increase is on the part of the manu/dist.

SCHIP
The above link reaffirms by CI that there will be a potential $1 per stick increase as well....

[d_day]

Originally Posted by wolfmonk

If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?

Distrubutors and retailers mark up their products by percentages, not by flat amounts. Let's say that retailer X has a 50% mark up. If he pays $5.00 for a cigar, he's going to sell them for $7.50. If that retailer's cost on that cigar goes up by $.40, his price will rise as well. His cost is now $5.40, and his sale price is now $8.10.

These taxes will all be assessed the first time the cigars change hands. So, the importer or manufacturer (if made in USA) will pay the tax. The importer will sell to a distributor, the distributer will sell to shops, or other smaller distributers. If the cigars change hands three times before they make it to the consumer, at the same 50% mark up, the $.40 tax turns into a $.90 increase. If you add in a second distributer, that same $.40 turns into $1.35.

[Cypress]

I really would like to caution people from overspending because of the SCHIP Tax. I am seeing it now as there have been quite a few great deals in the BST section as people are kinda strapped for cash. I have an ungodly feeling that later on this year the people who overspent prior to April 1 will be taking a big loss trying to recover some cash during hard times. I would recommend buy what you can now and not overspend and give yourself a budget to live off of throughout the year.