A serious discussion on aging

[ThinAirSmokin]

I've been doing some research on laying down some cigars as an investment for say...10 to 15 years out.All I can seem to find is info on cubans.
What gives...am I supposed to be lead to believe that only cubans are worth aging and the non cubans we enjoy here in the states are just overpriced crap?

[DBCcigar]

Some cigars age better than others; be it Cubans or not. I've enjoyed most of the Cubans I've smoked that only had a year or two of age on them. As far as any others, it just depends. I know Opus X are far better with age. I like a full-bodied cigar and some cigars aged for too long will lose some of its umpth.

Pepin does not believe in aging cigars.

[sboyajian]

It really depends.. as David pointed out, all cigars are different.

Most cubans taste very fresh for the first year and should be aged at least a year, and even further, most cubans get better and better beyond that ('ve heard up to 18 - 20 years being the peak)..

Opus definately get's better with age.

That being said, I've also read reviews of people who aged the original release Padron 64 and aging had a negative effect. It was still good, but it lost a lot of what made it special.

[ThinAirSmokin]

I know there are different opinions on aging but i have concluded there is a market for aged habanos(meaning to sell for a big profit) and you would think there would be one for non habanos

[SixPackSunday]

there is a really good article in the winter issue of the ECCJ that talks about aging non habanos, I would check that out and see what you think.

That said if your looking at laying down cigars to age as an investment I would suggest a couple of things:

1. you tried to find original releases (the first year a cigar is sold) as the original release is normally the most sought after
2. there is a large group of avid smokers who feel that non habanos peak and no longer gain anything from aging after 6-7 years. wether or not it is true I dont know, but might be something else to look in to.
3. if your looking to age cigars as an investment your better off investing in cubans, but then you need to lay them down for a longer time period than 15 years. probably closer to 30 to cut a solid profit, as several retailers still have cubans for sale that are 15-20 years old.

[ThinAirSmokin]

Originally Posted by SixPackSunday

there is a really good article in the winter issue of the ECCJ that talks about aging non habanos, I would check that out and see what you think.

That said if your looking at laying down cigars to age as an investment I would suggest a couple of things:

1. you tried to find original releases (the first year a cigar is sold) as the original release is normally the most sought after
2. there is a large group of avid smokers who feel that non habanos peak and no longer gain anything from aging after 6-7 years. wether or not it is true I dont know, but might be something else to look in to.
3. if your looking to age cigars as an investment your better off investing in cubans, but then you need to lay them down for a long time period than 15 years. probably closer to 30 to cut a solid profit, as several retailers still have cubans for sale that are 15-20 years old.

Cubans are out of the question...maybe there isn't a market for non habanos...it just seems like there would be

[SixPackSunday]

Originally Posted by ThinAirSmokin

Cubans are out of the question...maybe there isn't a market for non habanos...it just seems like there would be

While i wont argue with what you want to do, can I ask why cubans are out of the question?

and I agree that there is a market for aged habanos, just not the same market there is for aged cubans. I'm sure anybody with some original release opus could pull a very pretty profit right now, but then look at dbccigars WTS thread on the original release anejo's that isnt moving much (no offense at all to dbc, just an example). so I personally would be cautious in what i'm buying in hopes of a return

[ThinAirSmokin]

Originally Posted by SixPackSunday

While i wont argue with what you want to do, can I ask why cubans are out of the question?

and I agree that there is a market for aged habanos, just not the same market there is for aged cubans. I'm sure anybody with some original release opus could pull a very pretty profit right now, but then look at dbccigars WTS thread on the original release anejo's that isnt moving much (no offense at all to dbc, just an example). so I personally would be cautious in what i'm buying in hopes of a return

I just thought it was illegal to bring them into the states and the forum doesn't like us talking about them on here so...just thinkin I would stay away from them.I wouldn't even know where to start.

It seems to be a nostalgic sorta mystical thing with the cubans

[SixPackSunday]

I understand what your saying. just a little clarification, the forum does not want us to discuss HOW or WHERE to purchase cubans cigars for U.S. residents. discussion of the cigars themselves, and anything about them is fair game.

and yes, what a beautiful mystical thing indeed!

[slyder]

Ive often wondered about the whole aging thing. Some cigars sit in the factory warehouse for years before being sold. Some dont. What about the dude (for lack of the correct proffesional name) that comes to parties or events and rolls cigars right infront of everyone? Do they age the leaves the proper amount of time before he rolls them? Ive seen on several factory tour videos that the owners will snagg a gar right from infront of the roller and smoke it. You would think the flavor wouldnt be that great.

[AustinC9]

Originally Posted by slyder

Ive often wondered about the whole aging thing. Some cigars sit in the factory warehouse for years before being sold. Some dont. What about the dude (for lack of the correct proffesional name) that comes to parties or events and rolls cigars right infront of everyone? Do they age the leaves the proper amount of time before he rolls them? Ive seen on several factory tour videos that the owners will snagg a gar right from infront of the roller and smoke it. You would think the flavor wouldnt be that great.

I've wondered about this too. I smoked some fresh rolled cigars down in mexico but they tasted just great.

[ThinAirSmokin]

So...I agree that original releases would probably be a good bet along with Opus X.
Any others?

[havanitascigars-cl]

I age many cigars... Cuban and non-... and the results are different depending on what you are aging. Cohibas age well past 15 years, but Vegas Robainas and the Montecristos peak at about 8-10 years max. Montecristos from Altadis USA lose too much flavor after about 4 years. I have Fuentes that make it to about 5 or 6 years.

It is interesting to age cigars, but I have often found it is very easy to age them too long. They become very mellow and many become bland. I have seen guys drool over an aged Cohiba or other Cuban just because of the novelties of 1. they are Cuban, and 2. they are aged. The cigars actually were not very good, and if these guys did not know they were old Cubans, then they probably would not have cared for them. In this way the mind can play tricks on you.

All I can say is to pick some cigars up and age them. Smoke them along the way and keep tasting notes. Then you will see what kind of potential you may have.

The downside of this process is cigars, being plants influenced by the climate, have vintages like wine. An 03 Montecristo may not age the same as an 05. So you really are rolling the dice.

[Cheroot]

I've heard (on this forum) that the reason cubans are better aged is because cuban tobacco is sold almost as soon as it can be rolled. Plus it is of higher quality / strength / flavor, so decades of aging benefit it more than non cuban tobacco. Good non-cuban cigars are already aged several years.

Padron is a good example of aging non-cubans. The anniversary series is said to use some of their oldest tobaccos, while the thousand series are relatively fresh. I've read in several reviews that aging the regular Padrons puts them on par with the anniversary series. This probably doesn't help with your aging for profit situation however.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by ThinAirSmokin

I've been doing some research on laying down some cigars as an investment for say...10 to 15 years out.All I can seem to find is info on cubans.
What gives...am I supposed to be lead to believe that only cubans are worth aging and the non cubans we enjoy here in the states are just overpriced crap?

No. As Cheroot said, Cubans are rolled and sold screaming fresh. They thus do much better with aging, and will show significant improvement after even just one year, and will be like night and day after 5. Since 2006 Habanos has been using aged tobacco to rid Cuban cigars of the sick period, so now fresh Cubans smoke very well; however, they still benefit greatly from a few years of downtime. Non-Cubans are rolled from pre-aged tobacco, so aging them often does little to nothing to them, creating the absence of a market for aged non-Cuban cigars.

Then again, as havanitascigars-cl said, some do better than others. I have some Cuban Partagas from 2000 that are great, just fantastic. At the same time, I'm kind of nursing a case of buyer's remorse for a box of 2001 H. Upmann Monarchas I bought, because they taste like they've instead lost a lot of their taste. As for non-Cubans, Padilla Obsidian does very well with 6 months of age as well as some others. It really depends.