Question on cigar quality

[orca99usa]

"All of these smokes were destined to be premium branded, handmade cigars..." - but there was a reason that didn't happen. Maybe the taste profile didn't turn out the way they envisioned. Maybe they just weren't good enough to go to market carrying the company's name. Just because a top company made them doesn't mean they are good. A lot goes into developing a new cigar, and mistakes are made along the way. I'm sure that any top cigar company you can name has made unsmokeable cigars along the path to the blends we all know and love. It's an imprecise science, with a lot of experimentation along the way. Some of it works, some of it doesn't.

I bought two boxes of Superiores made by La Aurora, one of the most respected brands in the cigar industry. These, also, were supposed to go to market but did not. Along comes Cigars International to snarf up all the inventory sitting around the factory. They are decent smokes but far from great. Buying them off the shelf, I wouldn't have paid more than about $1.50 - $2.00 for one (I paid $20 each for two boxes of 20, one each of the two available wrappers). They're not all that different from the Flor de Oliva, the bargain label from Oliva. Supposedly that was the niche the Superiore was to have filled for La Aurora, but they decided not to go forward with it.

My guess is that Nestor Plasencia realized, after making a bunch of these, they weren't going to sell through B&Ms and online vendors at the projected price. He cut his losses, and JR Cigar tied the name of his trusted company to the stick. It is a good selling point, and I'm sure that JR hopes people will snap these up believing they are paying pennies for a premium cigar. That doesn't mean don't buy them. That just means don't buy them expecting premium cigars.

[Ndimarco]

I haven't tried JR or Thompson's blends, however, for a cheap stick that I think is good, are the Cigar.com house blends. Especially the Blue label and Brazilian Label. You can pick up a sampler of the 7 different blends for like 15 bucks, not too bad, and their customer service has always been real good to me and my friends. They accidentally sent an order late one time, and upon talking to the customer service rep they shipped out a sampler of really nice cigars (Gurkha, man o wars, graycliffs) for free.

[longburn]

The thing about reviews is first,taste is subjective.One persons dog rocket may be another person's wonder bomb. One person may like milder cigars and another stronger ones.One may like a creamy smoke and another a spicy smoke.

One of the best ways I found to figure out what I like is to go to a site like C.I. and purchase sampler packages which contain a variety of different cigars.And to get other cigars through trades and PIF's from members.

One I had always overlooked was Tatuaje...frankly because it has a very nondescript looking band which I (very erroneously)associated with being a cheap tasteing cigar. Now i'm hooked on them.

But I have found reviews to be very helpfull because I will find other reviews on the net in addition to the one first found and see what various people thought of the cigar.And too,I have come to learn what other members like and I see what the ones who like similar tastes as my own do.

[rovensmoke]

Originally Posted by KinnScience

I have been smoking some fairly decent cigars lately. Generally $4-$8 gars. Not super premium .. but ... well, good cigars. I am fairly new but have been studying, smoking, reading, and comparing, all in an effort to understand the difference between a good cigar and a .... not so good cigar. I like a good deal as much as the next guy. I have been warned against buying "generic" cigars ... such as JR or Thompson .. and though I have not tried these ... I have suffered "no name" brand cigars ... that were supposed to be "made at the same factories as name brand cigars ... etc" I suppose I have learned not to buy those gars. However, I recently read the following from JR cigars:

""On a recent trip to Honduras, Lew made a simple offer to master cigar maker Nestor Plasencia, “You give me every cigar in your factory and I’ll give you this check with lotsa zeros...” All of these smokes were destined to be premium branded, handmade cigars, but instead Nestor packed them up in 50-cigar kraft paper wrapped bundles and cashed the big check. And now it is your turn, to get in on one of our very best deals ever!""

Now I am not naive enough to buy their "JR ... why pay more" cigars. But perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. If these guys really did buy these gars from Nestor .... and they were really destined for premium brand labels .... wouldn't they be pretty darn good? I mean, this is a pretty blunt statement. Not a "shrouded" insinuation that the cigars are "as good as" ... but a blatant statement saying "these are actually exactly the same". Given that I would be able to tell the difference via one smoke ... I'm sure that anybody would be able to tell if this statement were not true. As such, and in light of the ease with which information is passed on to consumers via the internet, could we not assume that this company would not make such a statement unless it were true?

I guess I'm asking: could it be that these gars are really "unlabeled premium cigars"? I mean, there is a substantial amount of $$ that goes into marketing of name brand distributions. Also, margins of brand names need to be high for a number of other reasons. Even if these gars are not the real deal, and JR's is lying, there must be some place that we can buy gars from these factories .... that are as tasty (I really only care about taste ... imperfections that affect aesthetics are unimportant as far as I'm concerned).

Facts? Opinions?

Those cigars were great for a $1 apiece. They were bundled square pressed maduros and I wish I had bought more. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith with JRs I have gotten more great deals than bad in fact I have always gotten my moneys worth.

[craigchilds]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

I can tell you from almost forty years of cigar smoking and many years of trying to find the bargain smoke that is as good as the premiums, you will never find it.

I disagree. Strongly.

I've always thought cigar "quality" is like the quality of perfumes and colognes: it's nearly 100% subjective and therefore influenced a lot by marketing and perception driven by price. People think "If I paid $1 for it, it must be low quality. If I paid $10 for it, it must be high quality"

I think the vast majority of cigar "aficionados" couldn't consistently tell the difference between most name brands and 2nds/alternatives if the labels were removed. Time and time again it seems cheaper cigars trump expensive cigars in blind taste tests.

In my own personal experience, over the last few months, I've had some truly terrific Punch, Hoyo de Monterrey, Fuente, and DPG name brand cigars. I've also enjoyed the heck out of some lesser-quality bundled cigars from CBID and JR-- Perdomo Fresh Rolled, Bucanero Red, Indian Tabac, El Mejor Emerald, etc.

I've also had some duds from the same bundles/boxes that I didn't care for. Could have been variation between the sticks, or could have been my mood that day.

But I'm not convinced there is much inherent quality difference between tobacco plants based on where they are grown. Tobacco is tobacco is tobacco. (Think about this: We don't normally make a big deal out of comparing eggs at the grocery store based on breed of chicken, region where chicken is grown, size of egg, color of egg, etc. A Grade-A egg is an acceptable substitute for any other Grade-A egg).

Now, that's not to say a $3 Punch is as good as $20 1926 Padron. There is clearly some price-to-quality ratio. I think it is based, not on the quality of the leaf, but the skill of the blender and the quality of construction.

I'll say this: I know for a fact that I enjoy a $1.25 Perdomo Fresh Rolled more than a $4 Fonseca or even a $7 Rocky Patel Sun Grown.

Unfortunately, I enjoy a $20 Fuente God of Fire more than any of them.