Question on cigar quality

[KinnScience]

I have been smoking some fairly decent cigars lately. Generally $4-$8 gars. Not super premium .. but ... well, good cigars. I am fairly new but have been studying, smoking, reading, and comparing, all in an effort to understand the difference between a good cigar and a .... not so good cigar. I like a good deal as much as the next guy. I have been warned against buying "generic" cigars ... such as JR or Thompson .. and though I have not tried these ... I have suffered "no name" brand cigars ... that were supposed to be "made at the same factories as name brand cigars ... etc" I suppose I have learned not to buy those gars. However, I recently read the following from JR cigars:

""On a recent trip to Honduras, Lew made a simple offer to master cigar maker Nestor Plasencia, “You give me every cigar in your factory and I’ll give you this check with lotsa zeros...” All of these smokes were destined to be premium branded, handmade cigars, but instead Nestor packed them up in 50-cigar kraft paper wrapped bundles and cashed the big check. And now it is your turn, to get in on one of our very best deals ever!""

Now I am not naive enough to buy their "JR ... why pay more" cigars. But perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me. If these guys really did buy these gars from Nestor .... and they were really destined for premium brand labels .... wouldn't they be pretty darn good? I mean, this is a pretty blunt statement. Not a "shrouded" insinuation that the cigars are "as good as" ... but a blatant statement saying "these are actually exactly the same". Given that I would be able to tell the difference via one smoke ... I'm sure that anybody would be able to tell if this statement were not true. As such, and in light of the ease with which information is passed on to consumers via the internet, could we not assume that this company would not make such a statement unless it were true?

I guess I'm asking: could it be that these gars are really "unlabeled premium cigars"? I mean, there is a substantial amount of $$ that goes into marketing of name brand distributions. Also, margins of brand names need to be high for a number of other reasons. Even if these gars are not the real deal, and JR's is lying, there must be some place that we can buy gars from these factories .... that are as tasty (I really only care about taste ... imperfections that affect aesthetics are unimportant as far as I'm concerned).

Facts? Opinions?

[longburn]

I'm a long time gar smoker (28 years) but no exspert into the inside tradings of the cigar industry.But a lot can be discerned through the use of common business sense.

The best tobacco only grows in limited areas and then during limited years of good weather.After that the leaves to be graded and aged this of course all plays a part in the end dollar value.

The next step are the rollers and the sorting proceedures. The best rollers produce the best made gars and also get a premium price.As well during sorting things like water or sun spots,large veins etc take a toll on the amount of premium end product. Then there is the cost of the very nice bands most super premiums use and the boxing and packageing costs.

And so from this knowledge I would conclude that the statement that these are the same cigars as the super premiums worth twice as much is subjective. My question would be,at what point during the inspection and grading process were these budget cigars turned?

Certainly,you can claim that if your just using the same tobacco grown from the same place as the premium. Or,taking it further down the road by using the same best rollers and as well by using the same selection process. So the question of is this the same cigar depends on at what point during this process of grading this cigar was taken from to be sold.It could be as simple as not having a band or a fancy cedar box or having some water spots to not even being the same age in the tobacco or rolled terribly.

[Acesfull]

Sounds like good marketing to me....
If they were to be les just say the normal $6-8 stick you smoke... why not just make it a JR exclusive made by Nestor.. kind of how RP has blends me just makes for Famous and Thompsons etc... and they are still decently priced. One cigar that blows me away is the RP Cuban Blend that can only be bought at Famous and if you catch them on Cigarmonster.com a box can be had for $50 and thats $2.50 a stick for a smoke that has awesome consistancy with construction a flavor.

I'd stay away from it. The story may be true but I dont think the tobacco is as good as they are trying to make it sound.

[fuente~fuente]

This is how it probably really went...
Nestor~ What the **** am I going to do with all these throwouts?

<Enter Lew>

Nestor~ Hmmmmmmmmmmmm *rubbing chin w/big ____ eating grin on face*

Lew~ Hey Nes, How's it hangin'??? You got anything for me?

Nestor~ Yeah, Actually I do... How would you like to buy some really good premium stuff?

Lew~I'll buy all you got!!! Where are they!!!

Nestor~ There out by the dumpst.....errrrrrr...I mean... They're aging outside!

Lew~ Where will I put em?

Nestor~ We'll throw'em in the back of your pick-up truck. Got a tarp we can throw over em?

Lew~ Uhhhh... No...

Nestor~ Ahhhhhh don't worry... They'll be fine! It's not that far from the Honduras to North Carolina.

Lew~ Yeah.... I guess your right. How much???

Nestor~ How much you got???

Lew~ DEAL!!!!!!!!!! Here's the check!!!

Nestor~ Uhhhh... O.K. It's a deal then????... I mean... Yeah!!! Great doin biz with ya again Lew!!!

<Lew leaves >
Nestor~ What a freakin Tool...

[DSturg369]

LMAO, too funny Jason!!

[defcon3]

I personally am not going to buy a "jaw dropping secret special" of 1000 cigars for $99.99 unless I can at least try or buy 1 first. I can only imagine getting stuck with boat load of cigars only to light up the first one and say "Man, this taste like crap..."

Originally Posted by fuente~fuente

This is how it probably really went...
Nestor~ What the **** am I going to do with all these throwouts?

LOL!!! Fuente, your allright man

I think that's exactly how it went.... I like the bit:

Originally Posted by fuente~fuente

There out by the dumpst.....errrrrrr...I mean... They're aging outside!

[zackly]

I've been amused by Lew's BS for 25 years now.
Have to admit I've been sucked into his "deals" on several ocasions but I think it's telling I haven't bought from JR's in many years. At one time, before the internet, he was the only game in town. His catalogs were great reading! I do most of my business with CI & Famous now.

[nativetexan_1]

So, this thread is where Skeptics Unlimited meets?

[DBCcigar]

Originally Posted by fuente~fuente

This is how it probably really went...
Nestor~ What the **** am I going to do with all these throwouts?

<Enter Lew>

Nestor~ Hmmmmmmmmmmmm *rubbing chin w/big ____ eating grin on face*

Lew~ Hey Nes, How's it hangin'??? You got anything for me?

Nestor~ Yeah, Actually I do... How would you like to buy some really good premium stuff?

Lew~I'll buy all you got!!! Where are they!!!

Nestor~ There out by the dumpst.....errrrrrr...I mean... They're aging outside!

Lew~ Where will I put em?

Nestor~ We'll throw'em in the back of your pick-up truck. Got a tarp we can throw over em?

Lew~ Uhhhh... No...

Nestor~ Ahhhhhh don't worry... They'll be fine! It's not that far from the Honduras to North Carolina.

Lew~ Yeah.... I guess your right. How much???

Nestor~ How much you got???

Lew~ DEAL!!!!!!!!!! Here's the check!!!

Nestor~ Uhhhh... O.K. It's a deal then????... I mean... Yeah!!! Great doin biz with ya again Lew!!!

<Lew leaves >
Nestor~ What a freakin Tool...

LMAO

[AspiringGent]

Browse through the cigar reviews and you'll find literally dozens of highly rated "generic" or not factory-branded cigars with great ratings and at a great price. You just have to be a bit more careful. You know what a Montecristo #2 is going to taste like, but it's tough to say what "xxx smoke shop blended by some Cuban guy" is going to taste like.

[Cigary]

Taste is in the mouth of cigar smoker. One mans premium cigar is another mans POS,,,,and vice versa.

[6clicks]

Originally Posted by zackly

I've been amused by Lew's BS for 25 years now.
Have to admit I've been sucked into his "deals" on several ocasions but I think it's telling I haven't bought from JR's in many years. At one time, before the internet, he was the only game in town. His catalogs were great reading! I do most of my business with CI & Famous now.

What he said!

[tx_tuff]

When reading any catalog rather its JR, CI, Famous etc... You have to be careful! They will say anything to sell the cigars! They are just like watch a those dumb sales pitches on late night TV! And saving money because of no bands and boxes, that BS. Those boxes are made really cheap prob in a factory right down the road from where the cigars are made. The bands depending on how much art, prob not a lot for those cigars anyway aren't that much more then the boxes. And I haven't seen much marketing by Nestor. Besides most marketing is already paid for before the cigars are made! How often are we waiting on a new cigar because of hype from marketing? All the time! So I call BS. But if you try them let us know.

[Phantom57]

I know, they are made of ten year old Cuban seed tobacco by one of the premier expatriate rollers from Cuba. I can tell you from almost forty years of cigar smoking and many years of trying to find the bargain smoke that is as good as the premiums, you will never find it.

[KinnScience]

Originally Posted by AspiringGent

Browse through the cigar reviews and you'll find literally dozens of highly rated "generic" or not factory-branded cigars with great ratings and at a great price. You just have to be a bit more careful. You know what a Montecristo #2 is going to taste like, but it's tough to say what "xxx smoke shop blended by some Cuban guy" is going to taste like.

This site has been very helpful in many ways; the people here are the best and I appreciate all the info they have made available to me.

However, the cigar review section seems to be still in a "growing phase". Doesn't seem to provide much in the way of insight, only because reviews seem slanted toward the positive (or maybe these gars are great .. who knows). Anyway, JR alternatives are given over an 8 on a 1-10 scale ... heck even Thompson (which I would only smoke if I were on a desert lsland .. with no plants that I could dry out and substitute for tobacco), was given some good reviews.

I'm in the process of building up a supply of decent to good cigars. I'm getting good info on that ... and have over 100 gars in my new humidor ... and cooler. However, I want to keep most of those ... and smoke them a few a week only.... and certainly wouldn't want to pass them out to my "non-cigar" smoking friends who would be content with a Garcia Vega machine made should they want a smoke. Anyway, I want to find a "good" cigar that retails for around $3, that I can find for about $2.50 in bulk/on sale ... maybe even $1.50-2.00 for when I'm working on the pool or weed wacking, or whatever. I was fortunate to acquire some RP Legends from cigarbid, for about $2. They are actually darn good and I have "nubbed" 3 of them so far. I'd buy 100 if I could find them for the same price.

I really want to find out what and where I can fill this niche in my collection.