Women and Cigars

[CasualAdventurer]

Interesting. I don't recall suggesting deception or playing games, only reveling in certain roles. In my experience most women appreciate a man who is manly, and most men I know prefer women who are feminine. No games, no drama, just an enjoyment of the things that make us different. That doesn't have to mean that you'll sleep with them, just that you appreciate the differences.

As for me, I love the differences. I truly enjoy being a man, and I enjoy just as much the company of women who enjoy being a woman. I don't have anything against men who are feminine, or women who are masculine, they just aren't the people who I hang out with (or who hang out with me for that matter).

[TanithT]

Originally Posted by CasualAdventurer

Interesting. I don't recall suggesting deception or playing games, only reveling in certain roles.

Then where does the tension come from? Why not just relax and enjoy the company of others who are equally comfortable in their roles?

In my experience most women appreciate a man who is manly, and most men I know prefer women who are feminine. No games, no drama, just an enjoyment of the things that make us different. That doesn't have to mean that you'll sleep with them, just that you appreciate the differences.

Who gets to define what is masculine and what is feminine? How do our cultural definitions differ from those of other cultures around the world? Whose interpretations are valid, and why? What really are the differences, after becoming aware of the arbitrary specifics of individual cultures? Those are some pretty good questions.

I personally appreciate diversity in all its forms, both the kind you're talking about and all other kinds. I don't find tension in it so much as acceptance and relaxation. I find tension only when there is drama, games and manipulation, which I consider to be a negative. If there isn't any of that going on and everybody is happy with who they are, that's a situation to relax in with friends without any tension.

[CasualAdventurer]

Okay, now this is getting fun ;-).

Then where does the tension come from? Why not just relax and enjoy the company of others who are equally comfortable in their roles?

Tension isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes tension reveals beauty. For instance, without tension a guitar string will never play a pleasant note. Sometimes tension reveals strength, as in a suspension bridge where, without tension, it would collapse. The same is true in relationships; a little matching of wits or a little playfulness can build a healthy mental or physical tension without deceit or game playing.

Who gets to define what is masculine and what is feminine?

I do. (Joking.) In all seriousness, some of the definitions are cultural but some are biological. I've confessed earlier I smoke cigars mostly alone as a way to unwind, so I don't see many men or women lighting up. That's probably why I don't have a strong opinion about cigar smoking being a sex-oriented past time. This is an example of a cultural practice rather than a biological one. But there are differences in men and women's biology that help define feminine.

Women are (usually) the smaller sex and served by a man's strength. Men are (usually) more physically capable and are served by a women's gentleness and compassion. A quick example: tennis. Ever notice that the best women's tennis player's serves are never as fast as most of the men's? It's because a woman's shoulder is designed differently than a man's. It doesn't matter how much she works out, how much she developes the muscles of her arms, shoulder and back, a man with equal strength training will always be able to serve a faster tennis ball. All because of the design of the shoulder girdle.

That's what I mean by recognizing and apreciating the differences. Men and women are equal, but different, each being better at something than the other. That is not cultural, or relative, or subjective.

[Cypress]

Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them?

Maybe its just me in my married life where most of my other friends who have married since I have known them live busy lives too and I don't get to spend much time away from my wife. Personally, I enjoy, cigars, wine, beer, scotch, whiskey, pool, motorcycles (yes she has a Ninja), and many other things. My wife is my best friend and I have no one else to share my relaxation time with other than by myself.

[Laserjock]

Originally Posted by Cypress

Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them?

Maybe its just me in my married life where most of my other friends who have married since I have known them live busy lives too and I don't get to spend much time away from my wife. Personally, I enjoy, cigars, wine, beer, scotch, whiskey, pool, motorcycles (yes she has a Ninja), and many other things. My wife is my best friend and I have no one else to share my relaxation time with other than by myself.

Great post...

[jaq6plus]

I have smoked cigars for about 17 years. I started during a vacation to Cuba. I do it because I enjoy it and do not consider whether anyone else likes me doing it. I am entitled to that enjoyment and no one else matters. My husband does not smoke. He has always accepted my cigar smoking, has never questioned it. Other people have, on odd occassions, remarked about it but I just engaged them in conversation about it, even offer them one. I appreciate the dialogue of this thread, it is interesting to see the various opinions. Some of them are very Stone Age-ish but it's someone's opinion. Relax and enjoy your cigar, I am.

[jaq6plus]

p.s.

I ride a motorbike too, a Harley!

[CasualAdventurer]

Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them?

Where's the fun in that? It's like watching the sky slowly fade to black with the sunset to your back -- you miss out on the best part of the day! Enjoying a woman for the shear fact that she is a woman doesn't have to be sexual, its an appreciation much like that of enjoying a good cigar, a fine wine, or a masterpiece of art. I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.

[tx_tuff]

I just don't think you get it.

Originally Posted by CasualAdventurer

I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.

For reading all the replys from the women in this thread I don't think you are.

[Herf N Turf]

Okay, now this is getting fun ;-).

For whom?

This thread seems to me to have completely run amok.

Tension isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes tension reveals beauty. For instance, without tension a guitar string will never play a pleasant note. Sometimes tension reveals strength, as in a suspension bridge where, without tension, it would collapse. The same is true in relationships; a little matching of wits or a little playfulness can build a healthy mental or physical tension without deceit or game playing.

There is a vast difference in physical tension and emotional tension. Tension of either kind must be accompanied by release. Whether talking about a guitar string, or the notes it plays, tension without release is called "stress".

Women are (usually) the smaller sex and served by a man's strength. Men are (usually) more physically capable and are served by a women's gentleness and compassion. A quick example: tennis. Ever notice that the best women's tennis player's serves are never as fast as most of the men's? It's because a woman's shoulder is designed differently than a man's. It doesn't matter how much she works out, how much she developes the muscles of her arms, shoulder and back, a man with equal strength training will always be able to serve a faster tennis ball. All because of the design of the shoulder girdle.

If you picked up a tennis racquet and practiced everyday for 10yrs, lifting weights, doing everything you could do, you would never return Serena Williams' serve, let alone serve anywhere near her speed. No matter what kind of "girdle" you have

That's what I mean by recognizing and apreciating the differences. Men and women are equal, but different, each being better at something than the other. That is not cultural, or relative, or subjective.

"different but equal"? Wasnt there a policy in 60's Alabama sounding very similar to this, which sought to cement racial segregation?

Enjoying a woman for the shear fact that she is a woman doesn't have to be sexual, its an appreciation much like that of enjoying a good cigar, a fine wine, or a masterpiece of art.

Interesting. Aren't three out of the four examples here, OBJECTS?

If a man wants to be the kind of man who inspires women to appreciate them, start by treating them as people.

[dwhitacre]

At the last Herf I attended, I brought my wife and she enjoyed a cigar... Now she wants a box for her birthday!!!

I don't see anything wrong with this other than the cigar budget may double!!!

[TanithT]

Originally Posted by CasualAdventurer

I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.

Mostly you are inspiring me to want to marry Herf N Turf.

[Acesfull]

Herf N Turf is wise.... where is that damn bowdown smiley and he has an awesome avatar to boot

[Riedelma]

Very well said Herf N Turf

[CasualAdventurer]

Herf I think the thread has stayed on topic, everyone has expressed their views well and (mostly) without being insulting about it (your racism comment notwithstanding). I think until you get to know me better you probably shouldn't assume anything including my ability to return Serena's serve.

And yes, it has been fun for me. I've communicated a love for the fairer sex and for all of life, and if that is something you feel needs to be debated, well, I feel very sorry for you.