Boycott Altadis!

[CAJoe]

Altadis went up to Pete Johnson and told him to take the Flor de Lis symbol off his cigars or they will sue him. Altadis claims that Pete stole the symbol from Montecristo, whereas Altadis stole the name and everything fromt he Cuban brand. If you know the 2 symbols, you would know that they do not really look the same. This shouldn't even matter as the Flor de Lis symbol has been around for ages and used for a lot of different things by a lot of different people. Altadis makes a lot of crappy cigars but is a HUGE company that likes to throw its weight around threatening smaller companies. Most of Altadis cigars are crap whereas Pete makes some awesome stuff. I for one will never buy another Altadis stick again.

[edogg]

Someone should post all brands owned by Altadis so we are aware

Edit: nevermind. Here is the list: http://www.altadisusa.com/cigar/handmade.asp

[uptown_cigar]

I haven't smoked an Altadis cigar in over 8 years...they suck...all of them. I didn't realize people still smoked them.

[Cigary]

Wouldn't this be for the companys to haggle it out with their lawyers before bringing it into the general public to fight over cigars and who should boycott a companys cigars? There was a thread about something of this nature,,about disparaging cigar companys. It's bad enough we have to deal with the anti cigar lobby but to bring it "inhouse" like this doesn't bring a very good message as to how we look to the general public at large. I won't boycott any company unless they: 1. Screw me over personally 2. Do something so hienous it impacts everyone else.

Boycotting Altadis for them suing another company ( and I love Tats btw ) makes no sense in that this is about trademark infringement. Look at it this way,,,,let's say you had brothers and i was friends with them and you and I had a disagreement,,,,am I to stop being friends with your brothers because you and I had a gripe? Let Pete and Altadis work out their own deals while we enjoy our cigars.

[orca99usa]

Honestly, I don't believe we have a dog in this fight. A good case can be made that the fleur-de-lis is public domain (heck, the New Orleans Saints have it on their helmets - is Altadis going to sue them?). In one B&M I go to the two brands are displayed close to one another, and at a glance I have mistaken them for one another. That may be Altadis' point - that the band looks too much like theirs. I'm sure this will get worked out short of an all-out court fight.

[madurolover]

My first question would be, "Did you witness this exchange or just hear about it through word of mouth?".

To be honest, Altadis has a couple of brands taht I am not going to stop smoking regardless.
As was said above, "Let the two players work things out among themselves"!

[Volker]

That this has indeed happened seems to be confirmed by the postings on another board including posts by Pete.
The argument brought up about the Saints, the Boyscouts, France, and who else uses the Fleur-de-lis symbol is secondary, as it will certainly run down to the usage connected to a certain product or product type/category.
I also like cigars from brands from both companies and won't take sides here nor would I boycott either.
Having said that, I might buy a T-Shirt or Ashtray to support David vs. Goliath if I like the design
My position might change if I would be sponsored by either party

[CAJoe]

The idea that Altadis will push around as it pleases the smaller cigar makers does not bode well for the industry, not to mention the raises in pricing that will incur from lawsuits. If a business has to go through expensive litigation they will have no choice but to pass this to the consumer, us. If Altadis starts doing this against other companies it will hurt us in the longrun as the brands we love will cost more. The fact that a cigar company makes a lot of money off Cuban Counterfiets has the gall to sue another company for trademark infringment is crazy. Pete has come out on another message board and talked about this, it is indeed happening. This can only hurt the cigar industry, not help it. Why support a company that wants to hurt the consumers?

[jledou]

The symbol may be a common or public symbol but it will be looked at differently if it is already being used by another company in the same industry. Altadis and Habanos S.A. are closer to one and the same now days so to say that they are already stealing it from the CC is not 100% a valid argument anymore.

my 2cents: the cigar is what is important not the band. If Tat's change their band we'll still buy them, if not it's up to them to sort it out. Just don't raise the price of my cigars anymore to pay for the legal cost.

[havanajohn]

Originally Posted by Cigary

Wouldn't this be for the companys to haggle it out with their lawyers before bringing it into the general public to fight over cigars and who should boycott a companys cigars? There was a thread about something of this nature,,about disparaging cigar companys. It's bad enough we have to deal with the anti cigar lobby but to bring it "inhouse" like this doesn't bring a very good message as to how we look to the general public at large. I won't boycott any company unless they: 1. Screw me over personally 2. Do something so hienous it impacts everyone else.

Boycotting Altadis for them suing another company ( and I love Tats btw ) makes no sense in that this is about trademark infringement. Look at it this way,,,,let's say you had brothers and i was friends with them and you and I had a disagreement,,,,am I to stop being friends with your brothers because you and I had a gripe? Let Pete and Altadis work out their own deals while we enjoy our cigars.

I agree with Gary. For the time being, lets just let Pete and Altadis try to get this straightened out-even if it has to go to court...

[orca99usa]

Altadis and Habanos S.A. are closer to one and the same now days so to say that they are already stealing it from the CC is not 100% a valid argument anymore.

This is quite true. I had a lengthy discussion with an Altadis rep several months ago during a Romeo y Julieta event at a local B&M. He said that his company will be the one marketing Habanos when the embargo ends (and we all know it will, it's just a matter of when; the groundwork is already being laid). I asked what will happen to the brands that are currently made in both Cuba and elsewhere. He said that they will be sold together with no name changes. Whether he meant just the brands that Altadis holds the marketing rights to, we will have to see.

[Sigarz]

Originally Posted by orca99usa

This is quite true. I had a lengthy discussion with an Altadis rep several months ago during a Romeo y Julieta event at a local B&M. He said that his company will be the one marketing Habanos when the embargo ends (and we all know it will, it's just a matter of when; the groundwork is already being laid). I asked what will happen to the brands that are currently made in both Cuba and elsewhere. He said that they will be sold together with no name changes. Whether he meant just the brands that Altadis holds the marketing rights to, we will have to see.

This makes sense. I see no reason why there cant be a cuban section and DR,Nic,Hond section in B&Ms no reason for name changes.

[K Baz]

Just to make it fair I will boycott both and continue to only smoke cuban cigars.

[SCS]

This is quite true. I had a lengthy discussion with an Altadis rep several months ago during a Romeo y Julieta event at a local B&M. He said that his company will be the one marketing Habanos when the embargo ends (and we all know it will, it's just a matter of when; the groundwork is already being laid). I asked what will happen to the brands that are currently made in both Cuba and elsewhere. He said that they will be sold together with no name changes. Whether he meant just the brands that Altadis holds the marketing rights to, we will have to see.

That's what's going to be interesting. With General currently selling non-Cuban brands, like Partagas which they purchased from the Cifuentes, purchased from the original owners who fled Cuba there will likely be some very interesting court battles over brand rights. IIRC, General didn't even buy the Cohiba name from anyone; they just trademarked it in the US before Altadis did. Altadis sued, claiming that because they marketed the original Cuban brand they had the rights to the name, and not General. The US courts sided with General, again IIRC, along the lines of the US has a trade embargo with Cuba, so we don't recognize any Cuban brand trademarks. The fact that General bought the Partagas brand, as one example, from the founding expatriate Cuban family should make an even stronger case for them. I'd wager that any Cuban brand which Altadis doesn't currently market the non-Cuban version of is going to court. My guess is that once Altadis can import the Habanos to the US they'll try to block import of any non-Habanos cigars of the same brand if they don't own that brand. At the same time I'm sure that companies like General will try to block Altadis from importing the Habanos brands which they currently market the non-Habanos versions of. I think it's going to be intersting.

[SMOKE20]

I am sure this will be a n ongoing battle for sometime and I am sure it will go to courts seeing that altadis is huge and pete is a smaller boutique brand. I am sure the outcome will be fine and we will still continue to smoke both brands. It seems that it is a signature war, in this tough economy some companys will find crazy ways to get money and this may be one of them from altadis. Who knows.... All i can say is that we should continue to smoke the cigars that we enjoy.