A Rant/Convo starter about Nub,Cain, and Sam L.

[tx_tuff]

Let me start by saying I know Sam, well enough that I can call him a friend. I got to meet Sam before the Nub came out, now he was already making them and the marketing was already taking place but they had not been put out for sell yet. He flew to Houston to a herf the Houston Crew was having to send off a friend to Afghanistan! I asked Sam to come and he did, this was no big marketing ploy, there was nobody important there besides just local smokers. It wasn't a Nub event, in fact where we had it they didn't know Sam was coming. Later after the Nubs had come out and his was having he events and doing very well I got to hang with him again. Not only at the event but the day before the event a small group of friends meet him for dinner and then later went to a local cigar bar for some cigars. We where not all smoking Nubs or anything like that, like I said this was before his event and had nothing to do with it. Was just a great time of sitting around smoking, BSing, and talking cigars. The Texas Rep fpr CAO was also there as he is a good friend also. Needless to say I learned about cigars and Sam that night. The next night after the event he once again went to another place and hung out with the Houston crew way past his bedtime LOL. Just the man without the hype.

So in saying all of that this is what I learned about Sam Leccia. First he is a great guy, a lot of fun to be around and BS with. He is a very hard working, we talked about how he went from the being a Rep in the alcohol business to the cigar business and how he busted his a$$ to learn everything there is about cigars to help he be the best he could at his job! Sam is very passionate about cigars! It is not about just making money, it is about trying to make the best cigar he can. He talks to the people smoking cigars, not just he cigars but all cigars. He wants to know what people like and don't like so he can try and get the best product out there. Like I said he is a hard worker, but is he having fun with it? Well hell yeah he is, and who here wouldn't be trying to have as much fun as we could if we where in his shoes.

So as far as anyone thinking the "sweet spot" is a marketing ploy. Believe what you will, but Sam truly believes there is a sweet spot to every tobacco leaf, and that it is in the middle of the leaf. That is why the Nub is made the way it is. It isn't just a fat cigar that is cut off short, but the leaf is taken and the top and bottom is cut off to leave what Sam feels is the "sweet spot" of the tobacco before it is rolled. Thois is why the cigar is short, it is fat because Sam didn't want a 30 minute smoke. Now there may have been short fat cigars in the past, but they where not made this way. So rather you like them or don't like them it doesn't make it right to say Sam is full of $hit and its all about marketing because these cigars have been made before, because that is wrong!

Marketing, does he do a lot of it. In short yes, should he be faulted for that? I think no. For one he is far from being the king of marketing. Look at CAO, Gurkha, RP, etc... And not just the cigar companies, but how about the places selling them like CI, and many others. Marketing is a must for somebody new getting into the game.

I do like the Nub Cameroon and Habano, not crazy about the Maduro but I'm not a Maduro fan. I smoke my first Cain Habano yesterday and post a honest review of it. Was good, not great, but enjoyable and will smoke some more.

To each their own when it comes to taste, and if somebody doesn't like a cigar thats cool by me, I'm sure I don't like ones that others do. But I will stand up for Sam the person every time!

[eyesack]

Gah. Back from B&M. Couldn't find any Cains, but when I want to try a Nub, they have some good prices! Good info Frank!

[92hatchattack]

Originally Posted by Dom

And why the hostile tone here bro? If you READ my OP im definitely not tryin to talk shit on you or what you like and you make a comment in such a defensive and bitter way???

Haha, sorry man, didnt mean to sound hostile and my tone was not directed towards any individual. I have only friends here at puff.com.

I was just making a spirited statement thats all.

What it comes down to in the end is there is no right or wrong answer to this situation because every single one of us have different tastes. There are some cigars that others here rave about that simply dont do it for me, and some that i love that others hate.

Since you think that the NUB is only an OK smoke, this makes you feel like these cigars are hyped. But someone else with different tastes that loves the NUB make feel that the hype is justified by the cigar.

I was mearly stating before that smoking cigars should not be about the politcs of the cigar world. How little, or how much, or in what matter a manufacturer advertises will never have anything to do with how that cigar tastes or how i enjoy it. Like i said, i just smoke what i like

[StogieSteve]

Different Strokes for Different Folks. I've smoked all of the Nubs just to try them. If you are a slow puffer(no pun intended)the Nub can last. One of my buddies loves the nub and smokes them slow. I think the size if you don't consciously smoke slow goes just too fast. Add the price point to it and it is not a great buy. The Cain I have smoked is a pretty good smoke. The hype of the ads is not it is all cracked up to be. It is your usual marketing to create a "buzz." The Habano is a full bodied smoke and is fairly smooth. It doesn't knock your socks off and the Maduro is a little milder. They both are constructed well and burned even. Have some respect for the Habano and don't smoke it on an empty stomach or early in the morning unless you can tolerate the really strong stuff.

[piperdown]

Originally Posted by Dom

Why not just market them as small fat cigars?? Why the whole ploy about sweet spot?

Because they're trying to sell cigars and make a profit.
Create enough of a buzz and you can break even on a new line and not have to worry about building up a fan base through word of mouth or some critic from a smoking magazine.
Unless it's a product from a large corporation, creating a new line of "whatever" is expensive. Look at advertising budgets for new products....they're huge. Professional marketers are always looking for the perfect "hook" to get people to buy...why should it be any different with cigars?

[O'Hanley]

Let me start by saying I know Sam on a personal level and "trying to make a quick buck" he is not. I have seen the Nub marketing bring a fist full of "never smoked a cigar before" people into the cigar scene. So Sam's marketing is shedding new light on an old pass time. His passion for cigars is unparralled (I know it is spelled wrong) Getting into the cigar business without family ties is incredibly hard and he had to achieve that before anything else. The amount of time he put into the creation of the nub is incredible and the marketing came second.

As for the money thing, raise your hand if you hate money......come on now. I have bought 2 boxes of nubs, but due to Sam's "make a quick buck" outlook on the nub I have recieved ; 3 shirts, more free cigars than I can count, custom rolled cigars, the list of stuff continues, and he offered the hat off his head. Are these the antics of someone looking at dollar signs or the generousity of a man passionate about what he is doing and want to share it with others?

CAO and Drew Estate have marketed the hell out of their product and I love both of them as well. I feel that the way that these companies are marketing is drawing in a younger or less cigar savy customer base. If you are set in your cigars and the old way of the cigar scene that is great and you have much knowledge to share with the rest of us, but bashing the new guys in the market....?

[Dom]

In response to the two guys above I will quote my ORIGINAL POST:

Originally Posted by Dom

Not to talk bad about Sam L. because he's just doing what he can. Dont get me wrong, it's great business and he's a smart guy for it.

If you'd READ the OP you wouldnt have to come in with arguments and points that I have already made.

And O'hanley, maybe you should go introduce yourself in the new puffer section

[Dom]

Originally Posted by 92hatchattack

Haha, sorry man, didnt mean to sound hostile and my tone was not directed towards any individual. I have only friends here at puff.com.

I was just making a spirited statement thats all.

What it comes down to in the end is there is no right or wrong answer to this situation because every single one of us have different tastes. There are some cigars that others here rave about that simply dont do it for me, and some that i love that others hate.

Since you think that the NUB is only an OK smoke, this makes you feel like these cigars are hyped. But someone else with different tastes that loves the NUB make feel that the hype is justified by the cigar.

I was mearly stating before that smoking cigars should not be about the politcs of the cigar world. How little, or how much, or in what matter a manufacturer advertises will never have anything to do with how that cigar tastes or how i enjoy it. Like i said, i just smoke what i like

Yo its no big i was just sayin I'm not trying to put anyone down so no need to sound defensive. I agree with you 100% smoke what you want be it a philly or an opus.

[92hatchattack]

Originally Posted by Dom

smoke what you want be it a philly...

Ok now, lets not be rediculous..... LOL jk

[Jimbo57]

You know, the marketing with respect to ads doesn't do much for me as far as attention-grabbing goes. Store displays, however, are another matter. But the best 'marketing' to me are the comments ya'll leave on here and the honest, down to earth reviews. It gets my curiosity meter going.

I see the Nubs and they look nice, read nice things, etc., but that style is not my preference so I haven't tried one. In fact, smokes with a twelve-inch radius just don't interest me no matter who rolled it. I tried the Cain because it's more along my smoking preferences as far as sizes go, I wasn't sure about the habano wrappers yet, and I read alot of comments about it on here.

The Cain is the only cigar that recently made me go "Whoa, that's something else!" Stared at it between draws trying to decipher the rush of flavors and it lasted almost two hours. Including outside in the drizzle at night trying to help a neighbor with a limb on her roof! I bought a handful more and intend on getting a box.

That's also the only smoke that just about knocked me to my knees lately. Since I was pulling for Ga Tech against Miami last Thursday, let's just say that was the only knee-knocking this Tech fan saw cuz the Miami QB didn't get a spot on his jersey.

[madurolover]

Received a couple of Cains the other day from a brother here. After I let them sit a spell I plan on checking them out. I have heard nothing but positive reviews so far.

[Tarks]

I have heard that the Cains will knock you on your ass! I can't wait to try one.

[harley33]

I think that the marketing ploy is only good when I have other BOTL's comment on the cigar and recommend it. That is why I purchased the original 5 pack. I really wanted to buy a couple and try them out, instead of buying a 5er that would die in the humi ( I have enough of them...).

I enjoyed a Opus X last night that wasn't as good as the Habano Torp when you compare the price points of both stick $15 vs. $5. Granted that I bought the X at the local B&M and the Cain's online.

In either case, good thread Dom.

[Cigary]

From everything I have read about Sam is that he is a great guy and he is passionate about is product and business. Having said that there is quite a bit of reading out there in regards to tobacco and what is considered to the sweet spot in the leaf.

Everything I have read comes down to this basic theme about tobacco.

Tobacco within a cigar needs just enough moisture to keep it elastic, but not so much as to create expansion.

This level is always around 70% independent of temperature. Why? Because we're not talking about how much moisture is physically in the tobacco (to keep the absolute moisture the same if temperature dropped, you would have to raise the humidity).

What we are talking about is the sweet spot between tobacco leaves getting too brittle (68% RH or lower) and tobacco leaves beginning to swell (73% or higher). This sweet spot is always around 70% RH.

So, it's not like the sweet spot on a golf club but rather how the leaf as a whole is kept as a viable and close to perfect smoking leaf as possible. While I wanted to "buy" into the concept of a cigar having been made with the "sweet spot" of a tobacco leaf conventional wisdom does not support that theory else every cigar maker would be using only the middle part of the leaf for every cigar they make. ( Imagine only using about a 1/3 of the tobacco leaf and excluding the rest as subpar tobacco,,,think of the ramiifications of this ) Excluding stems and known bad parts of the tobacco leaf I think the growers try to maintain the standard of the RH within as much as the leaf as possible. I'm certainly not an expert on tobacco but I try to research those claims that are out there and do some research so that I am not caught in the middle of cigar "marketing" ploys. In the end I use my tastes as the overall decision maker of what I smoke and all this tobacco talk is just good talk and conversation fodder at the B&M's.

[O'Hanley]

Maybe I will Dom lol