Cuban Double Standard

[GunHand]

I have thought about the Cuban embargo for quite some time, and I honestly must be missing something....

How come we can fill our shopping carts with cheap junk from China (Communist, plus activily involved in two not so distant wars with us: Korea and Viet Nam).

Also, I see plenty of stuff from Nam for sale these days...(aren't we still kinda missing a few guys from our time over there?!?) Oh, and they are Commies, also, are they not?

So, I have to admit, I just don't 'get it'.

PS: We lost how many thousand guys over there, KIA, MIA, shot to H#LL, ect., exactly how many American servicemen died? I think around 52,000 in Nam, if I remember right. I really don't know about Korea, but I know it was a good plenty. But hey, the government appreciates our Vets service!!!

Seriously, why does the gov hold such a grude against Cuba...I just don't get it. If they're just waiting for Fidel to die....I'd say thats a little lame...

[mrsmitty]

Because the U.S. wanted to assassinate Castro and was un-successful, and Castro has out lived 10 us presidents. I think our governments jealous. (Kind of being a smart a$$)

I just watched "Fidel Castro The Untold Story" and Fidel speaks on the embargo, now me with my bad memory I can't remember what it was he said but I know it made sense.

[Bigtotoro]

Because Castro thumbed his nose at us and basically got away with it. So now there is propaganda on both sides about what an evil, soul crushing regime he runs and what imperialist capitalist pigs that we are. Obviously, the crucial American tobacco dollars would make such a difference seeing as how they do business with THE REST OF THE WORLD.

[mrsmitty]

I do agree its a double standard, Cuba wasn't our first enemy, nor our last. And we do business with other former enemies.

[Hermit]

Stupid relic of the Cold War.
Isn't any good for us or them.

[eyesack]

Seriously! I'd wonder what would happen if our president's Newports were made in Cuba? I mean, he didn't ban all other flavored cigarettes... :hide: lol j/k hopefully soon they stop that embargo sillyness! I think they're allowing people to go to Cuba now, right?

[Phantom57]

It's about proximity, missiles and that kind of stuff guys. They were a puppet of the USSR and make a good launching pad.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by Phantom57

It's about proximity, missiles and that kind of stuff guys. They were a puppet of the USSR and make a good launching pad.

Yeah, they were, but there ain't no
mo USSR and there ain't no mo missiles.
It was a good idea at the time, but for a
few decades it's just been bullshit politics.
The embargo has kept Fidel in power.
At this time, Chavez is a far bigger threat.
We are still buyin' Venezuelan oil, right?

[Cigary]

You brought up pretty much the same comments I have some months ago on this particular subject matter. We all pretty much know the history on this embargo and it was purely from a political stance. The hypocrisy stems from how this embargo started and as much as I like and grew up with Kennedy being the President at that time his actions that precipitated the embargo was very hypocritical at best. He had Pierre Salinger get him over 1200 Petit Upmann cigars before he signed the legislation as that was his favorite cigar. He could have done the embargo months before or after but chose to ensure his cigars were delivered before signing.

Cuba is a pawn in the political game we play. Yes, we are waiting for Fidel to die before we really get serious about engaging in dropping the embargo against that country. Yes, I am aware of what Castro has done to the people on that tiny island as I am aware of what dictators do in all parts of the world and the US still pays and supports the efforts of those regimes. I don't like the politics of how we do business because we don't seem to really be consistant in how we do business. China can poison us but we wont do anything about it because they hold most of our debt and we continue to let China buy up our debt. We trade with a lot of other countries around the world that have done far worse things than Cuba ever thought of doing.

Double Standard? Of course there is a double standard but the bottom line is who is getting the most payback because of this politically or financially? My biggest fear is the reality of the day when the Embargo is dropped and cuban cigars are a reality and you will find a mess unlike anything you will see as far as trademarks, sales, distribution, rights, etc. Realistically, people who enjoy cuban cigars are actually better off now with the embargo in place than it will when the embargo is finally done away with. When the cigar owners and manufacturers get in involved in this fiasco the true blends of cuban tobacco will forever be changed.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by Cigary

You brought up pretty much the same comments I have some months ago on this particular subject matter. We all pretty much know the history on this embargo and it was purely from a political stance. The hypocrisy stems from how this embargo started and as much as I like and grew up with Kennedy being the President at that time his actions that precipitated the embargo was very hypocritical at best. He had Pierre Salinger get him over 1200 Petit Upmann cigars before he signed the legislation as that was his favorite cigar. He could have done the embargo months before or after but chose to ensure his cigars were delivered before signing.

Cuba is a pawn in the political game we play. Yes, we are waiting for Fidel to die before we really get serious about engaging in dropping the embargo against that country. Yes, I am aware of what Castro has done to the people on that tiny island as I am aware of what dictators do in all parts of the world and the US still pays and supports the efforts of those regimes. I don't like the politics of how we do business because we don't seem to really be consistant in how we do business. China can poison us but we wont do anything about it because they hold most of our debt and we continue to let China buy up our debt. We trade with a lot of other countries around the world that have done far worse things than Cuba ever thought of doing.

Double Standard? Of course there is a double standard but the bottom line is who is getting the most payback because of this politically or financially? My biggest fear is the reality of the day when the Embargo is dropped and cuban cigars are a reality and you will find a mess unlike anything you will see as far as trademarks, sales, distribution, rights, etc. Realistically, people who enjoy cuban cigars are actually better off now with the embargo in place than it will when the embargo is finally done away with. When the cigar owners and manufacturers get in involved in this fiasco the true blends of cuban tobacco will forever be changed.

Well said.
The end of the embargo will benefit the Cuban people,
but it will screw up the cigar situation, especially now
that I've heard they are cutting back on production,
due to decreased demand.
Now is the time to stock up. They haven't really enforced
the "embargo" for a while now. Me, I don't really care.
I'm primarily a pipe smoker now and have all the cigars I'll ever smoke.

[Herf N Turf]

The OP hits on an interesting point.

The Chinese have the worst record on human rights violations of any country on earth. They purposely keep their currency undervalued in order to tie up import markets. Dumping cheap goods into first world countries erodes their labor forces and manufacturing resources. They are intentionally creating a dependency and at the same time, buying up the debts of these nations. Now that the Fed has just doubled the currency supply, the chinese are no longer interested in our debt. This means we will be forced to repay what they now own, both of which will devalue the dollar to the point where it will no longer be viable as the international standard currency. Rue this day, my friends.

We only threaten other countries with embargo nowadays. Korea and Iran pose just as large a nuclear threat now as cuba did in the 60's.

[Cadillac]

Ohh, I'm probably going to hate myself for posting, but I can't resist.

Basically, Cuban Americans in the Southern part of Florida have a tremendous amount of $'s and lobbying power towards your gov't. They've always had a loud voice, and have pressured your gov't to remain indignant towards Cuba for many many years. The Republicans have, for the most part, required Florida to win an election. Obama, did not. Hence the easing of tensions between Cuba and the states in the last little while.

Strong attempts were made with Raul, and the olive branch was extended, but I believe some of his "requirements" were just a little to strong. We'll see what happens, but this embargo ending has the best shot under this administration then ever before.

Basically, IMHO, any stimulation of your economy you can get, should be taken advantage of. With the new tax laws on our beloved cigars in the U.S., lifting the embargo could go a long way to make things better. But we have to remember what would happen to the makers of some of our fine NC's!

Digging a bit deeper...... There was an excellent article in Time magazine a few years back that discussed how Kennedy told his military commnanders that he would NOT authorize any additional support to the bay of pigs assault once it was launched. His commanders didn't believe him, and when they went to him for the support he stood his ground and refused.

The bay of pigs issue has been a sore spot for many people, for many years. Especially since Kennedy was a democrat. The are many other issues as to the Embargo and I by no means am picking sides.

[snowboardin58]

Originally Posted by eyesack

Seriously! I'd wonder what would happen if our president's Newports were made in Cuba? I mean, he didn't ban all other flavored cigarettes... :hide: lol j/k hopefully soon they stop that embargo sillyness! I think they're allowing people to go to Cuba now, right?

HA! I've never thought about the flavored part like that! nice

[AspiringGent]

From a Canadian point of view the embargo is a funny thing. Being in Cuba, we even get treated different than Americans, as if Americans are evil and us Canadians are completely different. I suppose it's just the propaganda (on both ends) that leads to this. The whole issue has more to do with economics than anything. There's really not a lot to be gained by the US from opening the embargo (except maybe for cigar lovers), whereas creating an embargo with China would cripple the US economy overnight.

[mapes]

it is kind of silly not only do we not trade with Cuba but in the early 90's the US tightened the embargo and made it so that any vessel that docks to trade with Cuba is not allowed to dock within the US for at least 6 months, which cut their food supply by around 80% and the average Cuban lost 20lbs that following year. There is a good documentary on it called the power of community