A 43 year old man owned me. (verbally...)

[PadronMe]

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

Well I have heard of American's running to Canada to dodge the draft during the Vietnam War.

Canada is not communist.

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

Trust me, in no way is Cuba the worst country in the world, the most oppressive of it's people.

OK, I trust you, but nobody said Cuba was the worst.

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

The citizens/prisoners of North Korea would give their right arms for the kinds of rights Cubans have.

I bet North Koreans would Choose the US over Cuba.

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

And rarely is the fairly tale of the American Dream lived out by Cuban immigrants.

I would agree with you here. They go by what they see on TV which is not representative of America. However, They have oppurtunities in the US that just don't exist in Cuba.

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

Or are they tempted by a self rightous land that calls them the ISOM?

Are you trying to piss everyone off?


You might as well quit while you are ahead because you are not going win this argument on this board.

[PadronMe]

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

I'll relate to you a story I've been told a few time by a number of people here in S. Korea.

A Korean businessman was talking to an American over lunch, upset with Japan and what is known in Korea as the East Sea. He was angry because the Japanese insist on calling it the Sea of Japan. "They do not own the sea, what right do they have to call it the sea of Japan!"
The American replied "No right, I suppose. But this same sea, you call it the East Sea, yes?" The man nodded, and the American asked "So what is it East of?" Korea, of course. You see, Korea and Japan have held bitter, conflicting views on a number of subjects because of their torrid history and close proximity to one another. Even the spelling of Korea with a "K" is said to stem from Japanese occupation. Originally, it was spelled with a "C", but the Japanese did not want Korea coming before Japan in the Roman alphabet, so they changed the spelling in the early 20th century. Is this story true? Who knows. It might've been the act of an ill-informed cartographer. Nevertheless, it remains a heated talking point in the country to this day.

I apologize, opusxox, and to anyone else I may have offended or angered with my posts, as it was not my intention to do so. That said, I refer back to the original topic of this thread:

What are you saying? The American was right.

[JonnySlingblade]

Originally Posted by PadronMe

What are you saying? The American was right.

He was absolutely right. That's the moral of the story. Differences like this are inconsequential from an outsider's perspective. I just wonder if perhaps the Cuban people find anything degrading about the term ISOM. I have no problem with Korea or Corea or the Sea of Japan or the East Sea. They all seem like really silly arguments that mask a much larger rift between the two countires that neither is ready to face. Namely, the decades of enslavement, rape, and oppression on Korea that Japan has never apologized for. When Chris Rock says he can't get a cab, he's not making a mellow commentary on the politics of taxi drivers, he's talking about inherent racism in America.

[Bobb]

uh...it looks like I walked into a pretty crazy debate...a mass-debate if you will

Anyways...is ISOM disrespectful...no more than calling Minnesota the Land of 10,000 Lakes. It's just another way of refering to a place. If I call it Cuba, ISOM, or that place that makes great cigars you can't get in the US...it doesn't matter. I'm sure your intent is not to insult anyone in anyway by saying ISOM....so there is nothing wrong with it.

As stated beautifully by Shakespeare:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet."

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by Catalyst Paintball

Well today, I posted in a MySpace Cigar group regarding my spending habit on cigars, and I touched on the subject of Cuban cigars. I made the mistake of reffering to them as ISOM's and he kinda went off on me...



I apologized to him to make sure waters were calm, but I ask you CS gorillas...
Is "ISOM" a degrading term in your opinion?

Nah. But if you want revenge start calling him Blood Test.

As it starts with just a tiny prick.

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

I know the conversion rate on my is not as high as some senior Yen-like members of CS, but as an enjoyer of fine cuban products, this sorta makes me think.
Cigars have been made in Cuba for much longer than Communism and Castro have been in power. This tradition is one that I think we can all agree deserves our respect. Through the processes of regime change in this "Island South of Miami", the legacy of cigarmaking has continued for generations. While I wouldnt senselessly flame someone on the internet for using a term like this, I would fault them for falling into the tiger trap of Cold War American propaganda, belittling it to empower the strong arm of democracy. Namely, the rights of these citizens are not the same as us, therefore it is an inferior system.
Without soundling like a confounded liberal, let me expound. This world is comprised of many different countries with many different ideas of how a government should work in relation to it's people. Because we live in economic and political liberty, we regard it as the best sytem of government, because, quite frankly, it is all we know. If you ask the bulk of Iraq right now, democracy isn't working as well as anticipated. Can democracy be forced on a nation unwilling to recieve it. I suppose it's an argument for other issues.
What's in question here is the practices of one government, and our criticism of it. I personally do not believe democracy is right for every nation. That there are some things, such as religious, racial, and ethical issues that cannot be resolved by democractic elections and buzz word like "Free elections". The world is not as clear cut as this. Try to look at it from a different view. Certainly this isnt like calling the Middle-East "god's armpit", but it is still at least slightly disrespectful. Perhaps if our government was a bit more socialist, we wouldnt have this vast, far-reaching corruption that we have with Congress, private organizations, and the military-industrial complex as a whole.
Bottom line, is using terms like ISOM is inviting the rants of assholes like the one you encountered. Unfortunatley, by some damnable glitch of modern science, most assholes have computers and internet access.

Note to Noobs: Whenever you see a followed or preceeded by more than 20 words without another smilie, skip to the next post to avoid being embroiled in things that will not add to your enjoyment of Club Stogie.

[Pablo]

It's a term...nothing more. I think people try to make it bigger than it is. I for one am not a big fan of the term, and think it is a bit silly. I can virtually guarantee I don't lose any sleep over it. I have no understanding how some people want to politicize the term. Acronyms...there everywhere!

A cigar is a cigar, I don't care what people call it, I light it.

[ResIpsa]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Note to Noobs: Whenever you see a followed or preceeded by more than 20 words without another smilie, skip to the next post to avoid being embroiled in things that will not add to your enjoyment of Club Stogie.

Must.....resist......desire.....to....respond..... ..

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Note to Noobs: Whenever you see a followed or preceeded by more than 20 words without another smilie, skip to the next post to avoid being embroiled in things that will not add to your enjoyment of Club Stogie.

Gotta love "Klugsie Humor"! I may not agree with all the poitics in the thread, but I have to admit, JohnnySlingBlade makes his points known in a most civil way compared to what we have seen in the past.

[Mister Moo]

A great man once underscored, "Those who prefer cuban gerbils, I find are really into it more for the status of having the cuban gerbil than actually understanding the cuban gerbil." What could be more clear? Anyone who snarks at folks about ISOM shorthand vs. correct country name and spelling needs a gin & tonic along with nice, long, warm enema.

If you want, I'll redraft an "apology" for you, but it will get the waves running closer, higher and at odd angles. I love writing those kinds of apolgies, though.

And I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[ky toker]

Originally Posted by Catalyst Paintball

Well now I dont feel bad. But I'll tell you this... I travel to Florida about 6 times a year. I would rather not bump into this guy...

[ResIpsa]

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

Before I am banished by popular opinion from the CS realm, I'm not a freedom-hating, America-bashing socialist.

I'm sorry Mr. Klugs, I truly am. I tried to resist responding but I failed. Have pity on a poor newb

The signature used by Mr. Slingblade are the lyrics from a song "ironically enough, entitled "Cigaro"" from System of a Down.

We're the regulators that de-regulate
We're the animators that de-animate
We're the propagators of all genocide
burning through the world's resources,
then we turn and hide

I'm familiar with the song, the band the cd and the bands political beliefs. They are one of the biggest America bashers out there. (The Dixie Chicks have nothing on these guys)

I'm all for people having their own beliefs, and they are entitled to them. But Jonnyslingblade, if you're going to post crap like this trying to stir the pot, please don't deny your true political bent by claiming "oh i'm not an america basher" Be man enough and have enough balls to reveal yourself for what you truly are. The fact that you chose those lyrics, ( which are a direct reference to the United States as admitted by the band members themselves) for your signature line shows me what your beliefs truly are. Be man enough to admit it instead of claiming you are playing devils advocate. (oh, by the way this is just my

[Speedmaster]

Originally Posted by mrputts

we can't travel to cuba freely...

Ah, but that's just one country, due to the embargo against Cuba. It's like David Gilmour comparing the Isreali wall to the Berlin wall.

Personally, I don't buy or smoke Cubans due to the embargo, even though the embargo is filled with hypocrisy since we do business with countries like China.

But at least the guy didn't try to claim Jack Daniels is Bourbon. Now THAT would be an abomination worth going to war over.

[donp]

>>I just wonder if perhaps the Cuban people find anything degrading about the term ISOM.<<

I would guess not, you see they were kicked out of their homeland decades ago. From what I know, many of them do not have fond feelings for the system of government which exists there, and is the causative factor in their being exiles. So for them, I would imagine their Cuba is different than the one which exists today, so to refer to it as Cuba probably rankles their sensibilities. I cannot imagine their circumstances, I can only try and understand their pain. The topic of this thread was about a 43 yr old who (IMO) should know better, went off on one of our members because he didn't care for the reference to ISOM. I would venture to add that this guy probably doesn't know THE CUBA the exiles came from, and (IMO) therefore has no right to pontificate about things he doesn't know. Therefore his position is pure.. ...

[PadronMe]

Originally Posted by JonnySlingblade

He was absolutely right. That's the moral of the story. Differences like this are inconsequential from an outsider's perspective. I just wonder if perhaps the Cuban people find anything degrading about the term ISOM. I have no problem with Korea or Corea or the Sea of Japan or the East Sea. They all seem like really silly arguments that mask a much larger rift between the two countires that neither is ready to face. Namely, the decades of enslavement, rape, and oppression on Korea that Japan has never apologized for. When Chris Rock says he can't get a cab, he's not making a mellow commentary on the politics of taxi drivers, he's talking about inherent racism in America.

I guess you failed to see the irony.