What's in a wrapper???

[drc]

Originally posted by Merlin
Something a simple as the humidity of a stogie can also affect taste

I have noticed that. As for the wrapper, I once was smoking a Leon Jimenes that started to unwind. I removed the wrapper and tried to finish it. It was a totally different cigar. I could not believe how much the wrapper affected the flavor.

[poker]

If its wrapped with that crappy H2000 wrapper it can contribute to make any cigar into a lawn rocket.

[edisonbird]

Oh yeah, a lawn rocket that won't stay lit.

[SilvrBck]

Thanks for all the imput guys. I knew this would be an endless debate but I just wanted some opinions. This is what I've learned so far...

H2000+(X)=dog turd

[GWS3]

all debating aside the wrapper must do something for the flavor or there wouldn't be so many wrapper choices, and all the manufactureres would use the same wrapper. just my .02

[Bruce5]

Current Cigar Aficianado, with Arnold on the front. pp 106-107:
.
"Big Smoke" weekend in Las Vegas November 14th and 15th.
November 15th at 9am - "Wrappers around the World"
.
"Throughout the morning cigars will be given out to smoke while growers talk about the specific wrapper leaf."
.
Can't afford to go, but I bet an attendee could make some good comments on this post.

[Matt R]

Originally posted by seagarsmoker
The wrapper has a big impact on the flavor/taste of a cigar. OPT stated above 30/40% and in IMHO 40% is about right.

I see your starting to come to your senses a bit more..it used to 80-90% of the flavor came from the wrapper.

On removing the wrapper...of course it's going to taste different..it's going to smoke different too. The wrapper plays a pretty big part on how a cigar smokes...which adds to how it tastes.

This is a never-ending debate for one BIG reason. No two cigars are exactly alike, no matter what. You can't put a percentage on the amount of taste that comes from the wrapper, it's impossible. There are too many factors that have to be taken into the equation. Cashcow hits on a couple of good points. The wrapper not only affects your sense of taste, but also smell and sight. Our brains work in mysterious ways, my friends. You could have too cigars in front of you with identical wrappers, binders and fillers though one may be a bit darker or wrapped in a different direction making it look different. Your eyes are going to see them as two different cigars and your going to taste them different. Stroage of a cigar is going to affect the final taste 120% more than what is in the cigar. Age is alos going to add to the experience. And, next to all that, it's going to be different for each and everyone of us. So, to put a percentage on it is impossible, even for a math professor.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Matt R
. So, to put a percentage on it is impossible, even for a math professor.

Robmcd would probably beg to differ on this issue

[seagarsmoker]

Matt, I never recall saying 80 or 90%, I always have said major, which 40% (or nearly half) is NOT a change in what I think or have said. IMHO the biggest flavor/taste contributions are wrapper and ligero.
Of course I still disagree with your claim that it is minimal which you have stated for years and even on this thread.

[robmcd]

Originally posted by Brandon
Robmcd would probably beg to differ on this issue

thanks brandon... it's nice to see you on the other side of the podium for a change... maybe there's hope for the world after all. i already said it's erroneous to put a %-age on the contribution of something to a mixture. and i gave a coherent argument why my statement is correct. so, i win.... pure and simple. thank you.

[Matt R]

Nope, I remember distinctly that you said at least 80% of the flavor was from the wrapper. And, like Mr Math says, no percentage can be put on it anyway. And, for the record anything less than 50% would be minimal as opposed to anything over 50% would be major. So, I guess you agree with me.

[seagarsmoker]

Originally posted by Matt R
Nope, I remember distinctly that you said at least 80% of the flavor was from the wrapper. And, like Mr Math says, no percentage can be put on it anyway. And, for the record anything less than 50% would be minimal as opposed to anything over 50% would be major. So, I guess you agree with me.

Like your hair, your memory is fading. Never said 80%, period.
For the record, saying anything less than 50% is minimal is pure crap. Mimimal in this case would be 5 - 10%, 15% tops. No one (well in their right mind) could say minimal means 40 or 50%.
I don't agree with you or your post on this subject.

[SilvrBck]

I'm glad that in my limited time in the jungle that I have already started a fight! Ha ha. I think there have been some good points brought up on this slippery subject. When you walk into your tobacconist's humidor and see a cigar begging to be toked, that's the wrapper talking. From a pure marketing standpoint the wrapper is paramount. If the clothes make the man then the wrapper makes the cigar. The wrapper adds its own unique flavor characteristics to the cigars as a whole. The degree that it does so depends on the strength of the wrapper, the ratio of wrapper to filler/binder, and the strength of the filler/binder. I bet that that is one of the reasons that people prefer a different shape of the same cigar because the ratio of wrapper to filler/binder is different. Hmmmm. From a novice point of view I guess I have a journey before me to try as many cigars as possible to determine which flavor profiles appeal to me personally. It is a neverending quest that even you seasoned cigar smokers are still passionately pursuing...

SilvrBck

[drc]

Originally posted by SilvrBck
I bet that that is one of the reasons that people prefer a different shape of the same cigar because the ratio of wrapper to filler/binder is different

Most definitely, and not just because of the differing ratios. I tend to enjoy Robusto, Toro, and Pyramid vitolas because I have found that those suit my smoking 'style' - they burn right, take the right length of time to finish, etc. for me. Like everything else in this fascinating hobby, your tastes and mileage will vary.

[Matt R]

Originally posted by seagarsmoker
Like your hair, your memory is fading. Never said 80%, period.
For the record, saying anything less than 50% is minimal is pure crap. Mimimal in this case would be 5 - 10%, 15% tops. No one (well in their right mind) could say minimal means 40 or 50%.
I don't agree with you or your post on this subject.

Well, that wasn't a very nice comment, just glad I'm not sensitive about my hair loss..which is minimal.

My recollection of the 80% number comes from a recent discussion I had with the guys downtown. We all remembered the 80% number. We were discussing maduro and non-maduro wrappers and someone brought up the debate we had a while back.

Less than 50% is minimal or a minority(whether you are in your right mind or not) in comparison to that of 50% or greater which would be a majority or closer to the maximum, not crap. To put a percentage on wrapper taste is crap, because it cannot be done to any degree of accuracy, whether you've smoked for 50 years or 5 months.

Every tobacco leaf grown in different regions, i.e. soil, is going to taste different. It is the blending of these tobaccos that results in the overall flavor of a cigar along with all of the external factors, aroma, appearance, etc and the construction of said cigar. The palate is not the only thing refined in an experienced smoker. The appreciation for the appearance, the aroma of the burning leaf all work together to make the experience of the cigar and that would included the taste. If you take a Havana puro and change the wrapper it is not the wrapper that is making the difference in flavor, it is the combination of that wrapper with the original blend. If the smoker didn't know that a different wrapper was on the cigar they wouldn't know the difference. The only wa y to really do a taste test to qualify the wrapper difference would be to do it 100% blind and even then the results would not net an accurate answer to the debate. Reason being, no two cigars are alike, even out of the same box. They will be close, but they will not be the same and the smoker would then generalize that it was because of the wrapper. When in fact it could be because the percentage of one type of filler in one cigar was slightly different than the other.

Personal experience in a different wrapper on a cigar I am familiar with is limited to only three or four vitolas. OPT had re-rolled some Ex. #4's for Kerry. I smoked one of them back to back with a Ex #4 I had. I don't remember the new wrapper that was applied, but I think I remember Kerry saying it was Honduran. The two cigars tasted almost identical. I remember a slight saltiness in the Honduran wrapped cigar at the initial lighting, but after that it started to taste the same. These Ex #4's were pretty new and that could have leant to the profile being very similar. The other recent tasting was some pcs or tres that OPT ahd re-rolled. These had a cameroon wrapper I believe. I could definatley taste a difference in these and the reason is that to my palate a cameroon wrapper has a very unique taste.
A lot of the difference that people are tasting is not in the wrapper itself or the raw material, but rather in the way it is cured. Wrappers from different countries are cured differently. A Cohiba's distinctive tasting wrapper comes from the triple fermentation and not the leaf itself.

There really is no way to put a number on this, whether it's 40% or 80%. So, I will stick with my feeling that it is a minimum or a minority of the flavor, in general, with exceptions being made for certain cigars. E.G. if you have a cigar with three times the normal amount of ligero you won't taste the wrapper no matter where it came from or what color it is. So, to generalize and even say a majority of the taste comes from the wrapper is making a blanket statement that cannot realistically be made. There are too many factors to be included in the ratios.

I will now be checking myself into the Hair Club for Men, as I have become quite self-conscience about my hair loss over the last 15 minutes.