Unofficial CS Presidential Poll

[mr.c]

August september october should be a real crap storm with both sides going on the attack.

[summerkc]

I think once the American Public learns about Kerry's 20 year senate voting record (which is the #1 most liberal in the senate, Edwards in #4) I think Bush won't have a problem.

Notice how during the convention he kept harping on how he lead his men 30 years ago in Vietnam and how that makes him fit to lead the country during war now? That is because his senate voting record on national defence is an absolute disaster. He has voted against most weapon systems and defense spending, voted against the first Gulf War, for the War in Iraq, against the funding for the troops, for flag burning, against the Apache helicopter, against the B-2 stealth bomber, etc. He has very usefull amnesia.

If it was up to Kerry we would be defending ourselves against terrorists with musketts, canoes, and bi-planes.

Please don't elect this joker, your families lives depend on it.

[Wetterhorn]

As a member of the American Legion, I speak to many Viet Nam veterans. I know they served honorably without committing atrocities. Senator Kerry has accused these brave soldiers and sailors of committing atrocities and I find it difficult to believe that the instances of atrocities were as wide spread as he puts forth.

Here are some more quotes I found regarding Senator Kerry's service in Viet Nam. These are statements from swift boar personnel, who served in the same unit as Senator Kerry. I find these statements most troubling. Here they are for your reading. If you want to look at the site these fellows have, here it is: http://www.swiftvets.com/


"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth


"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

"In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)


"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

"It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

-- Robert Elder

[IHT]

thought these would be good for a laugh.

[Treyjo43]

I'm confused, who are the people who voted for "Other" going to vote for? and why aren't the people who claim to be Kerry supporters rebutting the Bush supporters claims? I am interested to know why y'all are voting for who you are...

Great post PDS, I'm pretty much undecide as of right know and this is educating me somewhat on the two canadiates(even though I take much of what is said with a grain of salt)

[sleepyjim]

Thank God we are Americans who can disagree or argue and we still are in common being American, BOTL, and dont take it personally.

I feel we all have opinions and issues, I say dont believe ANYONE, instead, investigate, educate yourself, and VOTE!

Great thread! Great Discussions!

Jim

[Wetterhorn]

Here are some of the things President Bush has helped pass in regards to Homeland Security.

Passage of the USA PATRIOT Act: The USA PATRIOT Act brought down the artificial wall separating law enforcement and intelligence officers and allowed them to talk to each other as they work to prevent future attacks.

Creation of the Terrorist Threat Integration Center (TTIC): TTIC became operational on May 1, 2003 and has since begun merging, analyzing and disseminating all threat information collected domestically and abroad in a single location.

Creation of the Terrorist Screening Center (TSC): TSC consolidates terrorist watchlists and provide 24/7 operational support for thousands of Federal screeners across the country and around the world. The TSC will ensure that America's government screeners are working from the same unified set of anti-terrorist information when a suspected terrorist is screened or stopped anywhere in the Federal system.

Launch of the Container Security Initiative: The Container Security Initiative establishes tough new procedures and created new partnerships with the world’s largest ports to target high-risk cargo before it leaves for our shores. 19 major ports, consisting of two-thirds of cargo containers shipped to the U.S., have agreed to participate in CSI.

I must say, I like these steps. I also wish the President would take steps to secure the borders. I think this simply must be done! Alas, I think the President bows to political pressure from the Mexican community and does not want to appear racist - something I think is utterly ridiculous!

[relaxnsmoke]

Originally Posted by Treyjo43

I'm confused, who are the people who voted for "Other" going to vote for? and why aren't the people who claim to be Kerry supporters rebutting the Bush supporters claims? I am interested to know why y'all are voting for who you are...

I'm not even a Kerry supporter and folks wanted to take me to task for supporting his Vietnam duty?!? It is human nature to avoid putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and making your peers (whom I consider everyone on this board to be) accept yourself. I only defend his record because he has explained his stance without blinking an eye. He went and experienced Vietnam firsthand. I am also old enough to know how unpopular Vietnam was with the American people the day he started his service, Kerry was aware of this and still he went and fought for his country, to protect our freedom. If all this is so calculated for a political career, why would he risk his life and then change his mind.

To think that President Bush is avoiding Kerrys military career would be enough to convince folks Kerry was really there. Bush and camp are not stupid people, they have checked out swiftboat.com and realize it is not going to help their campaign one iota. Between the two mens Military records, one was more calculated that the other.

John Kerry is a Vietnam Vet. He disagreed with that war. He isn't alone on that stance. Do all Vietnam Vets who disagreed with the war get equal treatment, or better yet, do all USofA citizens who disagreed with Vietnam need to be attacked and called traiters? Bush doesn't think so, why would his supporters think so?

[summerkc]

One of the most scary things that Kerry said in his acceptance speech was this: (paraphrasing) "I will meet every attack with full force"

Sounds like a good idea at first, right? What this really says is that Kerry is going to just wait for attacks to happen IN the U.S. and then respond. Sounds like a great policy, huh? He never says he will prevent attacks, just respond to them.

Another thing that the Left has continued to say is that Bush's policies have actually made us less safe because it makes the terrorists mad and recruits more members.

This is essentially the same as saying that if there is a rapist in your town you shouldn't try to catch him or put other rapists in jail because it will make him angry and rape more women, and it will make more rapists start raping women. Does this make sense? Raping women and killing innocent people is mindset, not a misunderstanding of cultures and ideologies. You can't hope to "talk" it out of them.

Terrorists to not attack us because we are in Iraq, they attack us because they hate our way of life and their religion tells them to (no matter what you have heard, the Koran actually says around 40 times in it to wipe the infedels and non-believers off the earth). 9/11, the USS Cole, the first WTC bombing, the Embassy bombings, etc. ALL HAPPENED BEFORE THE WAR IN IRAQ. We can not hope to just reason with these people and change their way of thinking about us. We have to go after them on their own turf and the Governments that support them. They have vowed to not stop until every non-muslim has been killed. Will just responding to attacks that kill Americans help this?

The world is much safer after removing Saddam from Iraq, we couldn't hope that he would just go away and be good. He continued to fund suicide bomber's families, which he publicly announced, in Israel, that alone links him to terrorists. Even after his death, his sons (which are even more evil than him) would have taken over power and then we would have a real mess. This war was inevitable, it was just a matter of how ready you wanted Iraq to be. Should we have given him 20 or 30 years to amass a larger military and better weapons? What ever you think, pre-emption would have saved millions of lives during the past 100 years. Just imagine what WWII would have been like if Hitler had been removed before the conflict escalated to a major necessity to remove him.

[relaxnsmoke]

Originally Posted by summerkc

We can not hope to just reason with these people and change their way of thinking about us. We have to go after them on their own turf and the Governments that support them. They have vowed to not stop until every non-muslim has been killed. Will just responding to attacks that kill Americans help this?

summerkc, Agreed, Al Qaeda and any similar group who's idealogies are so far from reason shall atone sooner than later. These men are cowards, they hide in caves and infiltrate amongst innocent humans to do nothing but perpetuate death. To destroy liberty and freedom. This country must do everything it can to stop terror, and it looks like we have a good start. We have taken the lead once again in "this war" which is terror and no matter what other Countries may say about that.....they know, they would be screwed if we didn't.

But Bush and Kerry both have said basically the same thing about the 9/11 commision findings and to implement them ASAP. I still am seeing many similarities, Nader is definately different, just too weak on defense. (to put it mildly )

I'll keep watching these guys........it would be easier if I could just say I'm voting for brand X.....

[rkt]

IHT,

He said no one reports what they really do over there. He brought home hundreds of pictures. He says no one shows the mobile hospitals that appear when they find wounded Iraqis. He said that within mins chinooks drop in with trucks and supplies and they start triage on the wounded. More trucks, choppers and ambulances arrive to haul them to US hospitals.

No one shows the MRE's (Meal Ready to Eat) that we deliver to people that have not eaten because there is no food. The kids that wait by the base gates everyday and soldiers throw them food, candy and bottled water.

No one shows the soldiers getting some Iraqis car out of a ditch that they drove into when a IED went off.

No one shows the trucks of food and water given out daily.

No one shows the innocent dead Iraqis the soldiers pick up and then bury.
When bus loads are killed, burned beyond recognizing them as human and soldiers have to remove them, haul what is left of the bus away, and bury the dead.

He said "No one shows all the good things we do."

No I think they are in different units. He is a combat engineer. He finds IED's (improvised explosive devices.) and mines. Digs them up, disarms them and then uses explosives to destroy the ordinances. They do this to keep roads and bridges open and safe.

[Treyjo43]

Originally Posted by rkt

IHT,

He said no one reports what they really do over there. He brought home hundreds of pictures. He says no one shows the mobile hospitals that appear when they find wounded Iraqis. He said that within mins chinooks drop in with trucks and supplies and they start triage on the wounded. More trucks, choppers and ambulances arrive to haul them to US hospitals.

No one shows the MRE's (Meal Ready to Eat) that we deliver to people that have not eaten because there is no food. The kids that wait by the base gates everyday and soldiers throw them food, candy and bottled water.

No one shows the soldiers getting some Iraqis car out of a ditch that they drove into when a IED went off.

No one shows the trucks of food and water given out daily.

No one shows the innocent dead Iraqis the soldiers pick up and then bury.
When bus loads are killed, burned beyond recognizing them as human and soldiers have to remove them, haul what is left of the bus away, and bury the dead.

He said "No one shows all the good things we do."

No I think they are in different units. He is a combat engineer. He finds IED's (improvised explosive devices.) and mines. Digs them up, disarms them and then uses explosives to destroy the ordinances. They do this to keep roads and bridges open and safe.

Of course no one shows that, the media chooses what to show and they choose to show only the bad and the ugly. The media will ALWAYs report the horrors of war(or anything for that matter) instead of the good things that are going on. What the major newpapers and news shows report 99% of the time is what is happing in 1% of Iraq...but it's not really thier fault, it's what sells, it's what we ask for, humanitarion articles and segments don't sell papers or TV ads so they are going to write about/show what sells...

[LeafHog]

Originally Posted by Treyjo43

....What the major newpapers and news shows report 99% of the time is what is happing in 1% of Iraq...but it's not really thier fault, it's what sells, it's what we ask for, humanitarion articles and segments don't sell papers or TV ads so they are going to write about/show what sells...

So very true, and so very sad. It will be interesting to see how the whole thing is protrayed in history books 100 years from now.

[summerkc]

Originally Posted by LeafHog

So very true, and so very sad. It will be interesting to see how the whole thing is protrayed in history books 100 years from now.

I bet in 100 years we will look back on the Iraq war and see that it was the start of the fall of radical Islamism and the start of democracy in the middle east. It will start a peace there that no one has accomplished or tried to achieve in 4000 years. Already there has been major progress with Pakistan, Afganistan, Lybia, Turkey, and now Iraq. The seeds of democracy have started to sprout. All people want to be free, they just need someone powerful enough to remove the leaders that want to rule them with an iron fist.

Just look what has happend to Germany, Russia, Japan, and even to some extent China in the past 40 years. These countries have been through some of the most brutal regimes and now they are for the most part free to do what they please. Who do they have to thank? The good ol USofA.

It will take a while for Iraq to get to be a place like those countries, but remember it took about 8 years to rebuild Germany and recontruct its government after WWII. We are only a little more than a year into Iraq.

Iraq is slowly getting better and probably the worst thing that could happen over there is a change in administration here in America. All the confusion over there from a change in command and policies (not to mention the threat of the U.N. f'ing it up) would be disastorous.

[sleepyjim]

Originally Posted by relaxnsmoke

I'm not even a Kerry supporter and folks wanted to take me to task for supporting his Vietnam duty?!? It is human nature to avoid putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and making your peers (whom I consider everyone on this board to be) accept yourself. I only defend his record because he has explained his stance without blinking an eye. He went and experienced Vietnam firsthand. I am also old enough to know how unpopular Vietnam was with the American people the day he started his service, Kerry was aware of this and still he went and fought for his country, to protect our freedom. If all this is so calculated for a political career, why would he risk his life and then change his mind.

Kerry was a Commie lover and he lied and still does, check this out:
http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialR...20040422a.html


To think that President Bush is avoiding Kerrys military career would be enough to convince folks Kerry was really there. Bush and camp are not stupid people, they have checked out swiftboat.com and realize it is not going to help their campaign one iota. Between the two mens Military records, one was more calculated that the other.

Sure, how many troops go to war and think they need a color camera?

John Kerry is a Vietnam Vet. He disagreed with that war. He isn't alone on that stance. Do all Vietnam Vets who disagreed with the war get equal treatment, or better yet, do all USofA citizens who disagreed with Vietnam need to be attacked and called traiters? Bush doesn't think so, why would his supporters think so?

No only the ones whop called the servicemembers killers, rapers and babykillers, those, like Kerry and jane Fonda, you know tyhe traitors. And while I'm at it how about a web site called Swift Boat vets for truth, it's here :http://coral.he.net/~swiftvet/index....SwiftVetQuotes
where More than 250 Swift boat veterans have now signed an open letter to Senator Kerry challenging his fitness to serve as commander-in-chief of America's armed forces.

250 versus what maybe 4 or 5 that Kerry can produce, give me a break.

Jim