Really Stocking Up?

[TMoneYNYY]

The only reason I say no is because there's no way this bill well get through all 3 stages. Pres. Bush has already sated he will not sign the bill (for other reasons), but I don't see a reason to worry.

[tippytwo]

wtf, $10 tax per cigar. Never heard of such a thing.

If they did that, they'd basically kill the industry. That wouldn't make any sense, so this tax stuff you guys are talking about makes no sense either. I could see a small increase in the tax of the cigar, but not $10. Believe it or not, I think our govt. has enough sense to figure out that it's pretty ridiculous.

Also, this is what this page says: http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14788

"The industry currently operates under a 4.8 cents-per-cigar tax cap, but under the proposed bill, taxes on "large cigars," a category that includes all but the tiny cigars sold in packs of 20 like cigarettes, would rise to 53 percent."

If I'm understanding this correctly, 53% increase of $.048 = $.073 That's an increase of only 2 1/2 ($.025) cents per cigar. Which, per box would be roughly an extra 50 cents($.50) in taxes over what you're paying now.

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

-T2

[MiloFinch]

Originally Posted by khubli

Stocking up now reminds me of those people in the south that 'stock' up on bread and milk when the weather threatens half an inch of snow.

You ever tried driving in snow when you've never even seen it before? It ain't too fun.

[j6ppc]

yes I'm stocking up.
Nothing to do with the proposed tax... Just buying (a lot) more than I smoke.

[tippytwo]

Originally Posted by tippytwo

wtf, $10 tax per cigar. Never heard of such a thing.

If they did that, they'd basically kill the industry. That wouldn't make any sense, so this tax stuff you guys are talking about makes no sense either. I could see a small increase in the tax of the cigar, but not $10. Believe it or not, I think our govt. has enough sense to figure out that it's pretty ridiculous.

Also, this is what this page says: http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14788

"The industry currently operates under a 4.8 cents-per-cigar tax cap, but under the proposed bill, taxes on "large cigars," a category that includes all but the tiny cigars sold in packs of 20 like cigarettes, would rise to 53 percent."

If I'm understanding this correctly, 53% increase of $.048 = $.073 That's an increase of only 2 1/2 ($.025) cents per cigar. Which, per box would be roughly an extra 50 cents($.50) in taxes over what you're paying now.

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

-T2

I vote for an increase in the amount of time given for editing posts.

Disregard this quoted post of mine for it has misinformation in it. I recently responded about this issue with the FACTS in another thread, but I'm copying that same post here:

You can read this bill yourself(took me a while to find this..check out page #3):

http://www.senate.gov/~finance/sitep...1307%20JCT.pdf[/SIZE][/B]

[SIZE="3"]It says that cigars will be taxed at 53.13% of the sale price. That still sucks hardcore!! What the bills says, is that the 53.13% tax will NOT EXCEED $10. It doesn't mean that that every cigar will be taxed $10. [/SIZE]

You'd need a cigar to cost $18.80 for it to be taxed an extra $10. Which would make the total price of your cigar $28.10.

So a box of cigars that now costs $50 would cost $76.56 under this current bill. A cigar that costs you $5 at a store would cost $7.65 under this bill.

I got my math confused from reading a previous article in another thread. But this is directly from the bill itself.

-T2

[CCCigar]

Originally Posted by tippytwo

[SIZE=3]It says that cigars will be taxed at 53.13% of the sale price. That still sucks hardcore!! What the bills says, is that the 53.13% tax will NOT EXCEED $10. It doesn't mean that that every cigar will be taxed $10.[/SIZE]

Close. This tax would be on manufacturer's sale price. That's wholesale not retail. Not to mention all of the costs associated with getting the cigars from the manufacturer to the retailer after the manufacturer sells it to the retailer. This is cost even more if the cigars are coming in from outside the US over water. You can cut the price increase of your example quite a bit. The increase will of course be passed directly on to us but it's not as simple as adding 53% to what you're paying now.

Don't get me wrong, I hate taxes and inflation and all of that but if you're like me and buy cheap bundles you're not going to go broke if you don't stock up. At least they are taxing it at that rate at that stage when the cigars are at their lowest cost. It could be much worse.

The people that are really going to be screwed are the retailers. If this thing really grandfaters their inventory like everyone is saying . . . .

[Soprano3695]

Who really cares...IF you enjoy your stix enough then pay it. In the end is money really worth your sanity?

[tippytwo]

Originally Posted by CCCigar

Close. This tax would be on manufacturer's sale price. That's wholesale not retail. Not to mention all of the costs associated with getting the cigars from the manufacturer to the retailer after the manufacturer sells it to the retailer. This is cost even more if the cigars are coming in from outside the US over water. You can cut the price increase of your example quite a bit. The increase will of course be passed directly on to us but it's not as simple as adding 53% to what you're paying now.

Don't get me wrong, I hate taxes and inflation and all of that but if you're like me and buy cheap bundles you're not going to go broke if you don't stock up. At least they are taxing it at that rate at that stage when the cigars are at their lowest cost. It could be much worse.

The people that are really going to be screwed are the retailers. If this thing really grandfaters their inventory like everyone is saying . . . .

Actually, it is as simple as adding 53%. The price increase will obviously trickle down through the process, but to the consumer it will still be 53%. Wholesale and retail prices have nothing to do w/it since it's all based on a percent tax increase. Also, shipping prices will be the same. Nothing changes except the price of the cigars. If anything, demand goes down while supply stays the same and the prices of cigars drop due to simple economics. That's if you want to go deeper into the theory of it.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are trying to say.

-T2

[CCCigar]

Honestly, I don't know the real numbers involved so this is purely for example.

Manufacturer sells ciger to retailer for $1.00. The new tax makes the cigar $1.53. Now the cigar has to be loaded on a truck, driven to the shipping yard, put in a container, put on a boat, taken off a boat, loaded on a truck, shipped to the retailer, taken off the truck and out of the container with a foklift, brought into a warehouse and stored. None of these people work for free and boats and trucks and all of that are expensive so let's say all of that supply chain adds $1.00 value to each cigar. The cigar has cost the retailer $2.53. The retailer has lots of other expenses above and beyond procurement and warehousing like advertising, employee payroll and insurance, equipment and office supplies, market position on future inventory, his new car etc. Lets say he puts a 50% markup on the cigar to cover all of that. He would then sell the cigar to you at $3.80 a piece or $75.90 a box.

Now, lets remove the tax at the manufacturers stage. The cigar hits the warehouse at $2.00 a stick. He marks it up 50% to $3.00. You pay 53% tax on tat resulting in a $4.59 cigar or $91.80 a box.

That's the difference I am trying to point out.

[ca21455]

Been trying to fill my cabinet for a couple of months now, so I guess you could consider that stocking up.

Seems to me something is going to pass and cigars are not going to get away clean.

So I'll keep buying as good deals come along. When prices go up, will modify to fit the budget.

Till then, working on my Representatives to try to get them to turn this around.

Missouri is not very friendly to increase in taxes so maybe there is some hope.

[papajohn67]

Originally Posted by ca21455

Been trying to fill my cabinet for a couple of months now, so I guess you could consider that stocking up.

Seems to me something is going to pass and cigars are not going to get away clean.

So I'll keep buying as good deals come along. When prices go up, will modify to fit the budget.

Till then, working on my Representatives to try to get them to turn this around.

Missouri is not very friendly to increase in taxes so maybe there is some hope.

Just completed my shopping list and now the work begins hunting the cigars on the list down. The wife gave the to my quest, pretty much buy what you want, "I'm not smoking them". Right or wrong I'm going to watch them age and in a couple of years check an see what the current price is on the same boxes. Should be interesting.

[RHNewfie]

Originally Posted by ResIpsa

you live in canada. why would you need to stock up?

Ever bought cigars in Canada? Arturo Fuente Curly Top = $9.99, RP Vin 92 = $24.00

[Old Sailor]

NAH.......don't need to stockup.....and this from someone with 5 humi's

[RHNewfie]

Originally Posted by Old Sailor

NAH.......don't need to stockup.....and this from someone with 5 humi's

You don't mean me do you?

[doctorcue]

I want to stock up... with what I see as an uphill battle... I might just do so. Yet... I have other financial goals; so if (and a BIG M'Fn IF) this actually happens, I'll just have to deal with it. I'd rather be debt free & smoke less than paying interest with 3 coolers worth of smokes.

Gotta remember... this is just a leisure. Still sucks though.