Bill Maas, Glocks, and airport security.

[12stones]

Originally Posted by maddman

Do you see mass shoot because of road rage? no its not going to happen in the air either.

No, but you do see individual occurances of shootings because of road rage, and at altitude, that's all it takes to bring a plane down. One stray bullet that penetrates the hull can tear that plane apart as the pressure tries to equalize.

There's a reason why the federal agents on planes have the special bullets that make it possible for this not to happen. And, no, they shouldn't be available to the general public.

[maddman]

Originally Posted by 12stones

No, but you do see individual occurances of shootings because of road rage, and at altitude, that's all it takes to bring a plane down. One stray bullet that penetrates the hull can tear that plane apart as the pressure tries to equalize.

There's a reason why the federal agents on planes have the special bullets that make it possible for this not to happen. And, no, they shouldn't be available to the general public.

Agents do not use special bullets and multiple bullet holes will not tear a plane apart, test have been done.

and if they did make some miracle bullet that did not penetrate metal why should it not be available to the public?

Bullet vs. plane myths

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by maddman

Do you see mass shoot because of road rage? no its not going to happen in the air either.

Originally Posted by 12stones

No, but you do see individual occurances of shootings because of road rage

Correct....there are not mass shootings due to road rage. But as Ricky said, there are individual occurances. Two bullets can kill a pilot and co-pilot, and that would take out 100s on the plane, and maybe more on the ground. Is that risk OK because it doesn't happen on a "mass scale"?

I am for LEOs carrying firearms on commercial flights. Individual civilains....not so much.

[maddman]

Ok lets go this route.

Interesting read on road rage Yes we may shoot out because of road rage but how is that different then running someone over, stabbing, or beating them to death? If you are prone to violence it well happen with or with out a firearm. This is shown threw out the world who have extremely strict gun control.

the Public and Police officers are only fooling them self if they thing Police get any training at all? they qualify once a year, and most barley make it some police don't even need to qualify to carry a firearm.

First the door to the cockpit is bullet proof now can not be shot threw and you can not get to it. end of story. The pilots can not be shot and if a person get a gun on board that is the only person with a firearm if by some chance you have an Air Marshal on your flight, you are screwed in this instance, you have to rush and beat the gun men. its a bad day.

Now say a violent man pulls a gun and the guy behind him is a law abiding citizen who want the plane to land and make it back to his wife and kids. One bullet to the back of the head puts the Bad guy down and the plane can land. its a good day.

LEO's are Civilians no matter who much they don't want to be the only non-Civilians are Active Military.

[zonedar]

The 'special' bullets are simply pre-fragmented rounds (such as Mag Safes) that are intended to prevent rounds from severing hydraulic line and such. Readily availible to you and me.

The whole idea behind concealed carry is that criminals are less likely to commit crime due to the fact that they,

1. Will get killed in the process
2. Won’t be able to fulfill their goal.

All one has to do is consider outcome of any of the recent mass murders (9/11, Virginia State, Columbine, etc...) of disarmed people, if even one licensed (with background check) person could have intervened.

Do you think that the 9/11 hijackers would have even attempted what they did (even if they could have gotten guns on board) if they thought that they were going to meet Allah prematurely at the hands of a armed citizen?

I live where in a Shall-Issue state. One probably encounters at least one person legally carrying every day here (statically). Never felt bad about it at all.

Given my experience here and in other states with liberal carry laws, I’d much rather risk the off chance the a person who’s gone through an FBI background check might go berserk and get away with it, than be forced into victim hood as we are now.

Proabably stating the obvious.

BTW, I fly a LOT. Already close to 100K mile this year alone.

FWIW,

-Steve

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by maddman

Ok lets go this route.

the Public and Police officers are only fooling them self if they thing Police get any training at all? they qualify once a year, and most barley make it some police don't even need to qualify to carry a firearm.

I don't know where you live, Brother, but we qualify once a month, and shoot whenever we want.

Originally Posted by maddman

First the door to the cockpit is bullet proof now can not be shot threw and you can not get to it. end of story.

Who is fooling themself now?

Originally Posted by maddman

LEO's are Civilians no matter who much they don't want to be the only non-Civilians are Active Military.

Granted, it is a matter of semantics. But I will tell you that it isn't only marksmanship training that is important, it is decision making skills. In my humble opinion, well-trained LEOs are in a far better position to make those decisons based on training and real-life experience.

I know I am not going to change your mind, and I doubt you are going to change mine. I am just glad the people who make the regulations agree with me.

[maddman]

Originally Posted by GOV fact sheet

New Standards for Cockpit Doors
On Jan. 10, the FAA published new standards to protect cockpits from intrusion and small-arms fire or fragmentation devices, such as grenades. The rule requires U.S. operators of as many as 7,000 airplanes to install reinforced doors by April 9, 2003.

• The FAA rule sets new design and performance standards for all current and future airplanes with 20 or more seats in commercial service and all cargo airplanes that have cockpit doors.
• Specifically, the new doors must be strengthened while meeting existing FAA safety requirements. The doors will remain locked, cockpit access privileges will be controlled, and possession of keys to the cockpit by crewmembers not assigned to the cockpit will be prohibited.
• Concurrent with the Jan. 10 rule, the FAA also issued a revised SFAR requiring operators to install temporary internal locking devices within 45 days on all passenger airplanes and cargo airplanes that have cockpit doors. At that time, about 98 percent of the airlines had already voluntarily installed a Phase
  1 temporary fix.

Monroe, MI Police officer Qualify once a year......I have had some instruction and go to the Range Once a month at minimum. Unfortunately you have an elitists attitude taking yourself above "civilian" you are one of us.

Are you against an Armed public?

[BigVito]

Originally Posted by maddman

Monroe, MI Police officer Qualify once a year......I have had some instruction and go to the Range Once a month at minimum. Unfortunately you have an elitists attitude taking yourself above "civilian" you are one of us.

Are you against an Armed public?

I'm against controversial threads.

[j6ppc]

C'mon - this is not a RTKBA thread but rather a thread about an asshat that forgot he had a loaded Glock in his luggage.

Seriously. I carry knives on my person and in my bag daily but somehow manage to remove same from briefcase and pockets before attempting to board an aircraft. In other words the whole

It part of your day to day Activities.

argument carries no water for me.

[maddman]

I admits its a long shot to forget about a gun when boarding a plane, but i have made an unscheduled stop at the court house tried to enter with a gun since I well forgot it was on me..... needless to say i left the second I walked up to the metal detector and was about ready to empty my pockets......These things happen, if he wanted to take the gun with him he could have just checked it and been good togo.

[BigVito]

Originally Posted by j6ppc

C'mon - this is not a RTKBA thread but rather a thread about an asshat that forgot he had a loaded Glock in his luggage.

Seriously. I carry knives on my person and in my bag daily but somehow manage to remove same from briefcase and pockets before attempting to board an aircraft. In other words the whole argument carries no water for me.

this thread is a dead end in these types of threads each side agrees to disagree.
pretty pointless if you ask me.

[maddman]

they may be dead ends but they are fun!

[BigVito]

Originally Posted by maddman

they may be dead ends but they are fun!

yeah, fun like sticking my head in a bulls ass

[12stones]

Originally Posted by BigVito

yeah, fun like sticking my head in a bulls ass

You got a weird idea of fun, Perry, but to each his own I guess...

[BigVito]

Originally Posted by 12stones

You got a weird idea of fun, Perry, but to each his own I guess...

I like getting up and close with my steaks