Hillary's running total.

[WyoBob]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

But that is, in my opinion, better than paying somebody to get knocked up, which is what Hillary is suggesting we do.

Paying someone to get knocked up. A great idea. This should cause Hillary's head to explode. Millions of babies and she'll go nuts trying to decide whether to give them $5,000 or abort them.

WyoBob

[qwerty1500]

Btw, If Hillary is elected, maybe she is counting on this to hold down the cost of the program ...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoID=8154838

Sorry ... just couldn't resist.

[WyoBob]

Originally Posted by Bigwaved

Like you (I am assuming), we are saving for our child's future.

I saved for our girls future. In 1976, when the first girl was born, we opened up an account and started putting money aside. I was making $400.00/month (my family didn't believe in paying a good wage. It cut inot operating capital.) In 1978, the other girl was born and we opened up an account for her. We had the money in unified gift to minors act. Big mistake. By the time each girl was ready for college, we had just over $40,000, for each child saved. This, of course, meant they could not qualify for any assistance. Zip.

What I learned: I could have "lived it up" and not saved a cent. I could have spent all the money we saved on riotous living and my kids could have qualified for all sorts of grants/loans and scholarships. One thing wrong with our government. They do not encourage saving (and the US has a dismal savings rate) and then tax the crap out of us to make up the difference. I guess, if we're not all victims, they wouldn't be able to promise us the moon every election cycle.

WyoBob

[SeanGAR]

Each citizen in the US currently owes $27,000, their share of the national debt. You have a wife and 2 kids, your family owes more than 100K, thanks to governments that borrow money instead of limiting spending.

This isn't the time for another expensive program. The money burned in the sands is only a fraction of the total debt that we owe (about $1700 per person so far, or $6700 for a family of 4). Debt service payments cost us 318,000,000,000 last year, about $1060 pp or $4200 for a family of 4.

I really don't think it's time to expand spending.

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Bigwaved

Nice...Your reply seems a little preachy to me. You have made such a broad jump in our discussion to arrive at this point that it looks to be complete. The country I live in is the one choose to or I would have moved. Not unlike a home owner though, some things could use renovation. Your suggestion that I am for all out socialism is puzzling to me. Your assumption that early periods of "unbridled free trade capitalism" brought prosperity is a half truth. It brought to some at the cost of others. I do believe the consensus is that mixed economies are the best. Not complete Socialism or Capitalism. Believe me, I am no expert, but I can see what complete privatization of an industry can do. It is somewhat like putting to fox in charge of the chicken coop.

My apologies if I sounded preachy, but I do tend to get easily stirred by the Queen B. SO many people simply think that all of these programs do nothing but add a little tiny tax on the super rich. Even if the rich were the only people that paid, the effects of socialism are completely ignored. A prime example is the social losses of Katrina. Look at the number of people, people who were bred to be on the public dole, who were too poor, stupid, or lazy to get out of their own way. They had relied on the government since day one for everything....even something as simple as a banana for breakfast, and when they need help...they get nothing. While their outcome was partially their fault, the blame also lies in the hands of the politicians who bought their votes with promises based on a pyramid scheme.

The same can be said about social security. We pay into a giant government scheme and there’s a good chance the money will never be seen.

Now socialized healthcare and baby bonds?

It doesn't matter whether it creeps in slowly, or breaks down the front door...socialism is socialism.


Also, I highly question your point about early American capitalism. The upwards mobility, the size of the middle class, and the opportunities to the poor were all much greater than they are today. Unless, of course, you are talking about the south...whose plantation economy more closely resembled a European than a capitalist economy.

If you care to continue this discussion, please PM me. In order to avoid a rambling hard-to-follow explanation, I would need to provide the history, context, and logic behind many of the dangers of socialism and the design of the US. Its just too tough and long to do here on an internet forum.

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

My apologies if I sounded preachy, but I do tend to get easily stirred by the Queen B. SO many people simply think that all of these programs do nothing but add a little tiny tax on the super rich. Even if the rich were the only people that paid, the effects of socialism are completely ignored. A prime example is the social losses of Katrina. Look at the number of people, people who were bred to be on the public dole, who were too poor, stupid, or lazy to get out of their own way. They had relied on the government since day one for everything....even something as simple as a banana for breakfast, and when they need help...they get nothing. While their outcome was partially their fault, the blame also lies in the hands of the politicians who bought their votes with promises based on a pyramid scheme.

The same can be said about social security. We pay into a giant government scheme and there’s a good chance the money will never be seen.

Now socialized healthcare and baby bonds?

It doesn't matter whether it creeps in slowly, or breaks down the front door...socialism is socialism.


Also, I highly question your point about early American capitalism. The upwards mobility, the size of the middle class, and the opportunities to the poor were all much greater than they are today. Unless, of course, you are talking about the south...whose plantation economy more closely resembled a European than a capitalist economy.

If you care to continue this discussion, please PM me. In order to avoid a rambling hard-to-follow explanation, I would need to provide the history, context, and logic behind many of the dangers of socialism and the design of the US. Its just too tough and long to do here on an internet forum.

I think that would be fun to continue this. Will do.