Political Threads? Add value or create noise.

[qwerty1500]

It's true, far too often political threads degerate into name-calling and hard feelings. The same could be said for many of the sports threads. But, many guys want to talk about these topics and CS has created a place for it.

I seldom particpate in these threads because I work in the public policy arena for my employer and I don't want to spend my free time trying to outwit someone who disagrees with me ... I have a wife and a daughter for that.

Perhaps it's the nature of the internet that leads to the rather low level of discourse ... no one is likely to punch you in the nose or, in my case, fire you if you cross the line.

I think that most people who post in these threads understand the nature of the internet environment and have chosen to play that game. Those of us who don't want to deal with it, don't post. And, those of us who are offended by the discussion should just ignore the political threads.

The only problem is the extra work it creates for the mods. I'm sure it's a tough call to decide when to close a thread that seems to be spinning out of control.

[macjoe53]

I read the political threads about tobacco legislation and think it would be a diservice to CS members to delete that forum.

I have read and participated in some of the "political" threads that have been posted in the "Everything but..." forum and find them informing and interesting. Do they sometime degenerate into name calling and get members banned? Yes.

However, there have been several threads that have dealt with more philosphical political questions (Socialism of America & Che Guevara, for example) that went on for quite awhile, gave many members the opportunity to voice their opinions and points of view, and actually presented the opportunity for members to learn things they didn't know or realize. It also gave us the opportunity to learn more about our fellow CS members.

That being said, it is up to each individual to take advantage of those opportunities.

In my opinion, which is certainly worth no more or less than any other member, I think political discussions should not be banned. A forum for these discussions would be appropriate because then members could choose whether to read the threads or not before accidentally opening one.

[opus]

I don't think this is the place for political threads and others that contribute to confrontation. There are many other boards where you can verbally beat each other if you enjoy that. Some can enjoy lively debate with alternative viewpoints while keeping and open mind and level head, many emotinally immature cannot. Either way, I don't think CS is the place for this.

[Kayak_Rat]

Originally Posted by opusxox

I don't think this is the place for political threads and others that contribute to confrontation. There are many other boards where you can verbally beat each other if you enjoy that. Some can enjoy lively debate with alternative viewpoints while keeping and open mind and level head, many emotinally immature cannot. Either way, I don't think CS is the place for this.

I agree with the grabber. I just dont think it adds anything to the site, in fact we have lost a few good members because of these.

[icehog3]

I agree with Adam about not banning political threads....it is all about respecting each other and each others' opinions. If we could all do that all the time, whether agreeing or disagreeing, we would have little problem.

Where the need to close up a thread comes is when people get disrespectful, and attack the messenger or becoming personally insulting/assaultive. If we just let that continue, the board goes up for grabs. I think we should let them go on unless they get out of hand, and the mods usually put a good deal of thought and discssion into closing threads before that actually happens.

And I won't close this thread even though Adam insulted Bea Arthur.

[Lanthor]

I think they are fine, in the spirit of free speech I think it would be wrong to ban them.
You can never change someone else's political view, that is up to the individual through education and personal experiences.
This is why I never participate, but I read them from time to time.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I agree with Adam about not banning political threads....it is all about respecting each other and each others' opinions. If we could all do that all the time, whether agreeing or disagreeing, we would have little problem.

Where the need to close up a thread comes is when people get disrespectful, and attack the messenger or becoming personally insulting/assaultive. If we just let that continue, the board goes up for grabs. I think we should let them go on unless they get out of hand, and the mods usually put a good deal of thought and discssion into closing threads before that actually happens.

And I won't close this thread even though Adam insulted Bea Arthur.

Adam and Tom make excellent points.
I think members need to realize and remember (if the don't already) what Tom has said and I have underlined above. Closing threads do not happen on a whim.

[raisin]

Originally Posted by Kayak_Rat

I agree with the grabber. I just dont think it adds anything to the site, in fact we have lost a few good members because of these.

I agree with the agreer, I come here to relax and enjoy my hobby. Key words - enjoy hobby!

I can't go to a political forum and intelligently discuss cigars, why should I go to a cigar forum to discuss politics.

[bazookajoe]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

...It also depends on how you define "political threads". Subjects that are overtly political and intended to stir controversy are just in bad taste. But subjects that begin as discussions about certain issues of the day can evolve into political discussions because we, as a nation, have allowed legislators to intrude so deeply into our lives with "good ideas" or "if it prevents x, it's worth it"...

I think those are the threads Da Klugs is referring to. Any (well, almost any) discussion can take a turn and become "political" - when they get out of hand the mods step in to either restore order or close the thread. IMO it's the threads that start out overtly political that don't contribute to the camaraderie of the jungle or create thoughtful discussion.

As others have stated, there are plenty of forums where we can discuss political issues. Sure, we are mature enough to just stay out of discussions we don't like rather than joining the melee, but we're also mature enough to recognize whether those threads add any value to this forum. I'm not saying there is no room for thoughtful political discussion here, but I have no problem with the mods shutting down trolling threads.

[floydp]

Political rhetoric I find to be quite interesting when its civil, However thats seldom the case, mainly because of our failure to see anothers point of view. Its been a topic of conversation in skype and here at my home during herfs and what not without a cross word. What does irk the hell out of me is hearing about how stupid anothers point of view might be according to some one else. We're just women and men doing the best we can for us and ours to provide and love. Just because we believe our opinion is true doesn't make it gospel. Last I checked none of us here are in charge.(other than Fearless Leader) And thats all I got to say about that.

[muziq]

I don't mind political threads when they begin as honest inquiries. However, it's rare that they do here at CS, and I get pretty disgusted with them in general and wish they'd go the way of the dodo. The problem often (but not always) starts with the initial poster--all too often that first post uses baiting, partisan language, or goes directly to positioning a particular POV. For better or worse, it seems that many on this board are conservative, and frankly I get pretty sick of seeing even thread titles that lead with anti-liberal baiting language or terminology. It pisses me off to no end, so much so that I've started just adding certain CS members to my ignore list. Seems like a new crop of shat-stirrers pops up here every 2-3 months, and after a few threads my ignore list grows.

I come here to talk cigars and relatively related things, not politics. I enjoy talking politics with people who are interested in having an intelligent exchange, but the partisan nature of the threads I see here just makes me sick.

[gvarsity]

I understand having informative posts about tobacco legislation but I personally see no reason to have general politics posts on this forum. I'm not saying we should ban them I support basic 1st amendment right on CS as well. Still I personally don't feel they bring anything positive and they do for me in fact detract from the positive atmosphere of the board. I do exercise my right to not read them most of the time.

I only read them occasionally when I'm feeling a bit masochistic. When I have read them I have seen a number of occasions where someone posted a legitimate but "unpopular on cs" opinion and get rg dinged into oblivion. Those cases of using rg to keep people politically in line really bothered me. I have yet to see a political thread that I felt was both balanced and respectful. Regardless of a couple of threads recently where they didn't dissolve to name calling I still didn't think they were that balanced or that respectful. The crude comments toward high profile politicians particularly Democrats or people considered left leaning is distasteful at best and definitely not contributing anything to CS. Regardless of affiliation there is no purpose to make a crude statement about a political figure other than to insult or bait those who don't share your opinion and that has no place in any civil community.

This by the way has nothing to do with my own political beliefs which I try to keep to myself. This has to do with my sense of decorum and civil discussion. I feel outside of political posts on CS that the level of decorum and civil discussion is quite high. Which is partly why I feel the political threads do a disservice to the community. It is a bit sad I don't feel that this community has the capacity to carry over the kindness and decency of the rest of the forum to the political sphere but I have seen no indication that it can.

Just my 2 cents.

[garilla]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

I don't talk politics or religion with friends usually.... and you're all my friends

Very well said. I agree with the masses, that while they start as informative, they do tend to become quite polarized, as expected. Nothing against anyone, the discussion of politics has been a charged one for hundreds of years. We can't expect that to change, nor have the power to change it.

Really, the only politics I'd like to read and discuss here would be ones related to cigars. SCHIP is a perfect example, and one we seemingly stand united to an extent (gee, I wonder why?)



Thanks for the poll.

- Garilla

[garilla]

Originally Posted by floydp

Political rhetoric I find to be quite interesting when its civil, However thats seldom the case, mainly because of our failure to see anothers point of view. Its been a topic of conversation in skype and here at my home during herfs and what not without a cross word. What does irk the hell out of me is hearing about how stupid anothers point of view might be according to some one else. We're just women and men doing the best we can for us and ours to provide and love. Just because we believe our opinion is true doesn't make it gospel. Last I checked none of us here are in charge.(other than Fearless Leader) And thats all I got to say about that.

Heh, this is why I really like to have herfs during times of what I like to call "mass distraction" (UFC, weekend football, movie, etc). That way, the discussion of politics rarely has a chance to come up.

- Garilla

[Skinsfan]

Political debate is very important for our country, however I have found that there is a time and place for it and this forum is not the time or place for it. I have learned this through personal experience on this board.