splitting my garbage disposal outlet.

[replicant_argent]

I am putting in a hot water dispenser under the sink and I have a duplex outlet that the garbage disposal plugs into, this is run on a switch above the sink.
The problem is that I don't have the wires from the panel coming into the outlet box, just the black, white, and ground from the switch.
Is there a way to wire it, breaking the tab in the duplex without running an extra chunk of romex down from the switch? It would be the simplest and most elegant solution to have half the outlet hot and unswitched.


The other option is to purchase an air switch, leave the outlet switched "on," and use one of these. I would rather not spend the 50 bucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-NEW-InSinkErat...QQcmdZViewItem

[RGD]

Ahhhh - creative wiring 101 -

Short answer is no - you would still need another wire. Question - do you have a dishwasher? If so it has power down low that a line could be tapped into.


Ron

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by RGD

Ahhhh - creative wiring 101 -

Short answer is no - you would still need another wire. Question - do you have a dishwasher? If so it has power down low that a line could be tapped into.


Ron

I am no expert, hopefully jjefrey(shoot him a PM) or another contractor will see this thread. But you have several high amperage appliances in the area. Depending on how many are on that circuit you could cause problems(fire)
Also, your local codes may come into play. New wiring is usually something best left to professionals. My

[pbrennan10]

Theoretically you could use the ground wire as a second live wire i think.

Of course i've been juiced and blown breakers more times than i can count so don't pursue anything i come up with.

[jjefrey]

Originally Posted by pbrennan10

Theoretically you could use the ground wire as a second live wire i think.

Of course i've been juiced and blown breakers more times than i can count so don't pursue anything i come up with.

[SIZE=5]DEFINITELY DO NOT DO THIS[/SIZE]

This is extremely unsafe, and a violation of several building codes. Using the ground as hot could back feed current to all the grounded receptacles in the house, and create all kinds of electrical problems as well as possibly ruin appliances.

IN SHORT JUST A VERY BAD IDEA.


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[replicant_argent]

The garbage disposal and the dishwasher are on the same circuit, and it is a double 15 amp breaker, I really don't feel like running another circuit for it.
the washer is in the same run of cabinets, but I can't remember if it is hardwired or not. I suppose I could pull the washer out and see if I can run some conduit behind the toe kick.

I love it when someone confirms there is no easy way. I suspected that anyway.


In retrospect, if I had thought of that outlet for a water dispenser when we were building the house, I most certainly would have had it split or added another hot unswitched outlet for a hot water dispenser.

On the bright side, when I use the outlet by switching the plugs, the dispenser works great!

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by pbrennan10

Theoretically you could use the ground wire as a second live wire i think.

Of course i've been juiced and blown breakers more times than i can count so don't pursue anything i come up with.

I may be nuts, but not that nuts!

[pbrennan10]

You asked if there was a way...

Perhaps you meant to ask

Is there a way that won't involve a fiery electrified death?

[jjefrey]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

I am putting in a hot water dispenser under the sink and I have a duplex outlet that the garbage disposal plugs into, this is run on a switch above the sink.
The problem is that I don't have the wires from the panel coming into the outlet box, just the black, white, and ground from the switch.
Is there a way to wire it, breaking the tab in the duplex without running an extra chunk of romex down from the switch? It would be the simplest and most elegant solution to have half the outlet hot and unswitched.


The other option is to purchase an air switch, leave the outlet switched "on," and use one of these. I would rather not spend the 50 bucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-NEW-InSinkErat...QQcmdZViewItem

Unfortunately no, In order to use the duplex receptacle in that manor you need to run a separate wire. Also the building code requires that a duplex receptacle wired in split configuration be feed from two separate breaker with a common trip.

You would need to run a new line from the panel and add a new breaker in order to correctly do this.

[jjefrey]

You could use the air switch as a work around by leaving the wall switch on, and controlling the disposal with the air switch. Not the best solution but an acceptable solution. Just don't run the disposer and water heater at the same time, so as to not overload the circuit.



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[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by jjefrey

You could use the air switch as a work around by leaving the wall switch on, and controlling the disposal with the air switch. Not the best solution but an acceptable solution. Just don't run the disposer and water heater at the same time, so as to not overload the circuit.



.

That is the conclusion I had come to as well.

[RGD]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

The garbage disposal and the dishwasher are on the same circuit, and it is a double 15 amp breaker, I really don't feel like running another circuit for it.
the washer is in the same run of cabinets, but I can't remember if it is hardwired or not. I suppose I could pull the washer out and see if I can run some conduit behind the toe kick.

I love it when someone confirms there is no easy way. I suspected that anyway.


In retrospect, if I had thought of that outlet for a water dispenser when we were building the house, I most certainly would have had it split or added another hot unswitched outlet for a hot water dispenser.

On the bright side, when I use the outlet by switching the plugs, the dispenser works great!

If possible - do a quick count on your amp draws for the line the dishwasher is connected to.
Assuming that you are good to go - most all dishwashers are hardwired. Simply disconnect the line from the dishwasher and run it into a junction box for use as a feed. This box can mount to the back wall, floor, etc - does not have to be in the wall. Then run a new line from there back to the dishwasher and then another line over for your water dispenser. Total cost in parts should only be 5 or 6 bucks depending on what materials you have laying around.


Ron

[beamish]

you need another wire to do this,I have extensive electrical experience,breaking the tabe would be correct if you had the extra wire present.what they did was run the feed wire to the switch,and ran a switch leg to the disposal outlet,which is the standard way to do this,if you are handy getting anothe wire to the switch box shouldnt be that tough.if its onthe counter you could access the switch from the base cabinet under it,fish another wire from the switch to the base cabinet and get the wire to the disposal outlet.most of the time the disposal outlet is surface mounted under the sink in a steel box,

[beamish]

Originally Posted by jjefrey

Unfortunately no, In order to use the duplex receptacle in that manor you need to run a separate wire. Also the building code requires that a duplex receptacle wired in split configuration be feed from two separate breaker with a common trip.

You would need to run a new line from the panel and add a new breaker in order to correctly do this.

you can split a receptacle using one feed ,3 wire switched receptacles are a good example of this,common in living rooms,however,if you do run another circuit to the receptacle, thus having 2 different circuits on the same receptacle they must have a common trip

[jjefrey]

Originally Posted by beamish

you can split a receptacle using one feed ,3 wire switched receptacles are a good example of this,common in living rooms,however,if you do run another circuit to the receptacle, thus having 2 different circuits on the same receptacle they must have a common trip

That is correct in the living room example, however he is specifically asking about a kitchen and according to the current NEC the garbage disposal and dishwasher each require dedicated circuits. So in order to do this to code you would need a new circuit.



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