Reducing Drinking Age to 18???

[Virginia Gent]

The drinking age should absolutely be lowered back to 18. It is the age at which you're legally responsible for your actions. It's one of the earlier examples of legislation "for the children". Quit using your womb-fruit as an excuse to put your nose into someone else's affairs.

An earlier poster said "let's ask MADD". I've got a better idea, let's not ask MADD sh*t. MADD has turned into a prohibitionist organization. It's founder, Candy Lightner, left years ago because of it.

[glking]

Originally Posted by Virginia Gent

The drinking age should absolutely be lowered back to 18. It is the age at which you're legally responsible for your actions. It's one of the earlier examples of legislation "for the children". Quit using your womb-fruit as an excuse to put your nose into someone else's affairs.

I am by no means a MADD supporter, but you can be found "legally responsible" and tried as an adult for crimes when you are much younger that 18, so that argument doen't really work.

[NHsmoker]

Originally Posted by glking

I am by no means a MADD supporter, but you can be found "legally responsible" and tried as an adult for crimes when you are much younger that 18, so that argument doen't really work.

you can be tried as an adult for adult crimes at less than 18 years old but at 18 you can't be tried as a juvenile you are responsible for your actions so thae argument is valid!

[jkorp]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

Having some fat lush like Ted Kennedy tell some unfortunate son that he is too young and irresponsible for a beer is not the way to teach young adults how to enjoy anything responsibly.

Anyone who has spent any amount of time in Europe can attest to the fact that alcohol is available to most any 16 year old, and they are able to consume it (if they choose to) responsibly. I spent a lot of time in German discos when I was 16...the drunken idiots were the Americans to whom alcohol was a holy grail...not the German kids. It doesnt matter whether the prohibition ends at 21 or 89, prohibition simply does not work.

Wisdom and responsibility does not come with age, it comes with experience.

Very well put.

[4thtry]

I must say it was a pleasure debating this with you all. Even though some have differing opinions i do like to hear other people's sides of the story. I understand where alot of you come from in relation to lowering the drinking age, i just think alot of things would have to change in order for that to happen.

[sclark7498]

Originally Posted by j6ppc

If I recall correctly this was ultimately a result of federal legislation that basically said "If you want to continue to receive Federal Highway Funds then your state's drinking age must be 21.

The remaining states that had permitted alchohol purchase/consumption for those under 21 quickly changed it.

IIRC a great example of how state's rights can be trumped by federal legislation (not a good thing IMHO).

I do feel that if you are old enough to vote and old enough to serve our country then you should be permitted to drink as well. I think it used to be that the drinking age on military bases was 18 regardless of which state the base was in.

Yes, that is correct. Federal law would allow the states only 90% of highway funds if they didn't comply. It was a way to get around the constitution and abridging states rights, because what state legislature or governor would risk losing millions $$$.
http://epw.senate.gov/title23.pdf

[smokin' machinist]

Originally Posted by sclark7498

Yes, that is correct. Federal law would allow the states only 90% of highway funds if they didn't comply. It was a way to get around the constitution and abridging states rights, because what state legislature or governor would risk losing millions $$$.
http://epw.senate.gov/title23.pdf

Sorry for changing the subject, and I might be incorrect but didn't the states lose some highway funds when the speed limit was raised above 55?

[rottenzombie]

Well I personally think that they should lower the drinking age to 14 and raise the driving age to 25.that way when most people here were old enough to drive they would be tired of drinking to excess.Of coarse I all so believe that accepting responsibility for ones own actions is something that should be mandatory and thought from a young age.

[RUJohnny99]

The landscape has changed since the drinking age was moved up to 21. There are enough safeguards today with police checkpoints & huge penalties against drunk driving that those 18 year olds that drive drunk will be identified relatively early & hopefully be able to mend their ways before they cause some serious damage to themselves or others later in life. On the other hand, it will also allow us to identify those with a serious drinking problem and get them help so they can lead a normal life. By having the drinking age at 21, the problem behavior isn't identified until mid-late 20s.

The problem is, no legislator is going to be "pro" dropping the drinking age. There aren't enough 18-20 year olds with enough power or money to make a difference to these people.

[theycallmedan'lboone]

as long as there are humans involved somebody is gonna screw it up, be 21 and get a dui, be 50 and get a dui. doesn't matter. The law says 21. So thats the law. I can tell you that I broke the law, and that I lived in italy when I was 19, so it was legal to drink there.
basic facts eople will be stupid no matter their age.

[icehog3]

I did an article for my college newspaper back in the mid 80's when there was a push to lower the age from 21 to 18. The statistics I found at that time showed that drivers from age 16 to 20 accounted for 10% of the licensed drivers...and that age group accounted for 20% of the DUI related fatalities and injuries for the same period. I thought that spoke volumes.

[billhud]

21 unless active duty military, then 18.

[tfar]

Originally Posted by glking

The US is the most successful and prosperous country in the history of the world! Must be something to that.

If one measures morals, cultural achievement and intelligence with money, then that tells us a lot about the morals, cultural achievement and intelligence of that person.

Till

[tfar]

Originally Posted by glking

I am by no means a MADD supporter, but you can be found "legally responsible" and tried as an adult for crimes when you are much younger that 18, so that argument doen't really work.

Now that on the other hand is a good argument.

Otherwise I agree pretty much with Aalmeter and Mosesbotl. As y'all know, I am German and grew up there. First exposure to alcohol was probably around first grade when I was allowed to nip at my grandpa's wine glass. I definitely didn't like it and wasn't too hot on trying it again for years.

Once you are 16 you can legally buy wine and beer. I remember doing shopping for my mom in the little grocery store around the corner at age ten and buying wine and cigarettes for her. Never touched any of the stuff.

Among all my friends I did not have a single alcohol problem, not even a DUI. Actually in my hometown we have a city festival where high school student fraternities form marching bands and parade through the town. These kids are between 16 and 19 years old. They almost drink themselves to death but military discipline is require of them when they march 20 miles per day and drum up in front of former members' houses. Believe me, after that you know how bad alcohol can be for you.


I am for lowering the drinking age to 16 on soft stuff and putting it at 18 for hard stuff. At the same time it would be good to give out drivers licenses only at 18 or at least 17. This gives the kids some time to get the bug out of their system. When you have been once so drunk that you fall off your bike, you know you cannot drive a car when you are smashed. It will also take away the delicious taste of the forbidden fruit. I think that is an important point.

On top of that, drivers ed and the tests you need to pass in order get a license are ridiculous here. I am also a member on a car forum. One American who did his permit in the USA and then in Germany said that 30% of American drivers would be unable to get a permit in Germany even if they tried several times. This is purely his opinion but I think he is on to something. Another aggravating circumstance are the road quality and the weather. The roads are worse here than in most of western Europe and the weather can be much more extreme.

So you combine bad roads, inclement weather, an uneducated, immature driver with alcohol and what you get are teenage traffic deaths. This shows you that the entire system is not optimal. OTOH one must clearly see that the highest rate for traffic deaths even in Germany are among this group of people because circumstances are what they are and an unexperienced, immature German driver on a bad road with bad weather is just as much at risk as the American driver.

Statistics for Germany also show that alcohol abuse of under 16 year olds is on the rise, sadly. This is largely linked to bad social and economic situations.

To some who complain why America should look to Europe for improvements in many of the points we like to discuss and who are slightly miffed in their pride for this great country, I can only say to use two of America's greatest traits: be pragmatic and be unbiased. If we have an example of a system that is working better, let's see why, let's see what parts we can use, let's see if we can make it even better and set new standards and if we are done doing that for the sake of good results, we can worry if that example came from Europe, Africa or Asia or Australia.

Now, if you look at all kinds of statistics for quality of life, life expectation, health care, crime, education and so forth, it is clear that Europe and certain Asian countries are clearly ahead of America. If you look at economic statistics America is still leading. My own opinion is that since they are leading economically they can afford to change those other things and they need to do so, just as much as Europe needs to be more liberal in an economic sense and foster entrepreneurship and research much more.

Till

[billhud]

Originally Posted by tfar

If one measures morals, cultural achievement and intelligence with money, then that tells us a lot about the morals, cultural achievement and intelligence of that person.

Till

No, he was discussing success and properity. Hard to measure prosperity without taking money into account.