Oregon - The Right to Die law upheld

[IHT]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

Yes, but does that apply to the new law?

i haven't had time to read/reply to everyone, but i've noticed that you have stated that this is a new law a few times.
the law has been around for a while now... i have no clue why it was just now brought before the supreme court...

[cigar no baka]

I believe that suicide is a mortal sin, and that assisting someone else to commit suicide is as well. But that is my belief and I will not force it on others. I would never commit suicide, nor would I assist with or consent to anyone in my family committing suicide.

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by IHT

i haven't had time to read/reply to everyone, but i've noticed that you have stated that this is a new law a few times.
the law has been around for a while now... i have no clue why it was just now brought before the supreme court...

good point nostra-dumbass :s

[IHT]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

good point nostra-dumbass :s

you got that right.

[FpDoc77]

Honestly I havent researched the law passed in Oregon but this is my general stance. Everyone has the right to die but not to ask others to commit homocide. If someone is DNR-CC ( basically dont try to save me) thats just fine by all ethical standards. If someone says hey doc give me a bolus of potassium to kill me. Um well thats just messed up. We can make anyone comfortable and let nature take its course. To ask others to assist you in your venture to death violates their right/responsibility not to kill.

[FpDoc77]

Originally Posted by punch

Suicide? What are you talking about? The sciptures and traditional writings say much about falling into the trap of despondency. That is the mortal sin. But what of the person who throws himself on a grenade to save others around him? Is he going to hell? Was not Christ's death a suicide since, as God, he could have prevented it at any time? Or what about the person terminally ill who sees everything that he left behind for his family being eaten up by medical bills so the doctors that can do nothing for him get to make payments on their Lexus. So he blows his head off, not out of despondency, but out of love for his family? I am glad that God will judge him and not some member of a latecomer Protestant cult.

For my part, I strongly believe in a person's right to refuse life prolonging (if you can call it life) medical treatment and choose to die. I have instructed my family that if I become terminally ill, I want them to find a dealer and get me as much heroin as they can. I want to spend my last few weeks on this earth happy, not hooked up to some machine while a bunch of people in white coats use me (or my insurance company) as a golden goat.

I actually agree with much of this but find your references towards physicians offensive. To think physicians prolong life for profit is merely sick and ignorant. Physicians and hospitals actually get paid more if they get people out of the hospital quicker. You really need to educate yourself about a subject before speaking upon it. Hospitals are paid a base rate upon the disease process. If someone stays 2 months in the hospital they will be paid the same if they are in the hospital for 2 days. Hospitals are paid based on diagnosis not amount of time stayed. When they prolong life they actually lose money. On most fronts your physician will be paid the same no matter how long or little you stay.

[IHT]

Originally Posted by FpDoc77

I actually agree with much of this but find your references towards physicians offensive. To think physicians prolong life for profit is merely sick and ignorant. Physicians and hospitals actually get paid more if they get people out of the hospital quicker. You really need to educate yourself about a subject before speaking upon it. Hospitals are paid a base rate upon the disease process. If someone stays 2 months in the hospital they will be paid the same if they are in the hospital for 2 days. Hospitals are paid based on diagnosis not amount of time stayed. When they prolong life they actually lose money. On most fronts your physician will be paid the same no matter how long or little you stay.

i don't quite follow this?

so, you're saying that while my dad was laid up in a hospital from early Feb - late May, it would have cost the same amount as if he would've been released 2 weeks later?

how does $5,000 a day in the ICU x 4 months = $5,000 a day in the ICU x 14 days??

anywho... good discussions.

i wish i could find the site i used for my speech, because it laid out the guidelines in the law... it is much different than whay some of you are interpreting it to be.

edit:
ps - Punch, my wife is a trauma nurse and nurse educator in the PICU. she dives a Lexus GS400, but she's paid hourly. lol...... i know that has nothing to do with what you said. ahahahaaaaaa *cough*

[RcktS4]

Are these two quotes actually one post after another?

Originally Posted by FpDoc77

Honestly I havent researched the law passed in Oregon but this is my general stance...

Originally Posted by FpDoc77

I ... find your references towards physicians offensive... You really need to educate yourself about a subject before speaking upon it.

Hmmm....

[FpDoc77]

Originally Posted by IHT

i don't quite follow this?

so, you're saying that while my dad was laid up in a hospital from early Feb - late May, it would have cost the same amount as if he would've been released 2 weeks later?

how does $5,000 a day in the ICU x 4 months = $5,000 a day in the ICU x 14 days??

anywho... good discussions.

i wish i could find the site i used for my speech, because it laid out the guidelines in the law... it is much different than whay some of you are interpreting it to be.

edit:
ps - Punch, my wife is a trauma nurse and nurse educator in the PICU. she dives a Lexus GS400, but she's paid hourly. lol...... i know that has nothing to do with what you said. ahahahaaaaaa *cough*

IHT let me explain it to you. Lets say your dad had a pneumonia with complications of sepsis and was laid up in the ICU. Most insurance companies pay the hospital a set fee based on the diagnosis. So if he gets out earlier than expected then the hospital actually makes out...if he stays alot longer then the hospital must eat that expense. So its in the hospitals best interest to show you the exit doors rather than keep you alive at all costs. If you want to worry about anything its hospitals not keeping you long enough.

[IHT]

alright, i had already linked the site that i used for part of my speech. and if you click on the "red flags" section, it will show you how the "wording" of these polls effects the outcome. do they use the term "right to die" or "assisted suicide"? i know which one sounds worse, and which one sounds like something i'd vote for....

"Ballot initiatives and court decisions
Although it is widely condoned around the world, only one nation, the Netherlands, has made physician-assisted suicide legal. In the United States, voters in five states initiated ballot measures to legalize it. All have failed, except for Oregon, where voters in [SIZE="4"]1994[/SIZE] approved the "Death with Dignity Act." That measure permit doctors to prescribe a lethal drug dose but not administer it and established rules to ensure patients seeking assisted suicide are mentally competent, in great pain and intent on ending their lives. Since the law took effect in 1997, more than 200 people have committed suicide with the aid of a physician, according to the Oregon Department of Human Services.

[IHT]

Originally Posted by FpDoc77

IHT let me explain it to you. Lets say your dad had a pneumonia with complications of sepsis and was laid up in the ICU. Most insurance companies pay the hospital a set fee based on the diagnosis. So if he gets out earlier than expected then the hospital actually makes out...if he stays alot longer then the hospital must eat that expense. So its in the hospitals best interest to show you the exit doors rather than keep you alive at all costs. If you want to worry about anything its hospitals not keeping you long enough.

then why do we get bills from Drs, the nurses, the hospital, the bed pan cleaner, and the physical therapist in SEPERATE BILLS?
why are we not charged a FLAT RATE?

[FpDoc77]

Originally Posted by RcktS4

Are these two quotes actually one post after another?





Hmmm....

RCT hmm about what...maybe you can further explain your stance. The fact that I havent yet reseached the medical law in another state? Or that Im offended by the suggestions that physician are cruel and keep people alive and in pain to make lexus payments?

[IHT]

some statistics to look at... and a link to the page so you can follow the links in the stats: LINKY - CLICKY - ANNOYING WORD THAT ENDS WITH A "Y"

___________________________________
RIGHT TO DIE: Quick Takes


People frequently ask us what we think is particularly interesting or surprising about public opinion surveys. In Quick Takes, we point out facts or findings where there might be a new wrinkle on a trend; where we think public opinion is particularly noteworthy; or what may have gone unnoticed or been underreported.

TREND -- In 1950, fewer than four in ten Americans (36 percent) supported physician-assisted suicide. Today, about seven in ten (72 percent) support it. See Graph

KEVORKIAN -- Americans are divided in their judgments of "Doctor Death": 44 percent say the Michigan jury that convicted him of second-degree murder made the right decision, while 46 percent say the jury made the wrong decision. See Graph

CONSTITUTION -- About two-thirds (65 percent) of Americans disagree with the Supreme Court's 1997 ruling that held the Constitution does not include a right to physician-assisted suicide. See Graph

INSTITUTIONS -- Nearly three-quarters of Americans (73 percent) say if they had their choice, they would prefer to die at home. In 1936, about one-third of Americans (35 percent) died in hospitals and other institutions. By 1994, this number had increased to three-quarters (74 percent). See Graph , See Graph

INSTABILITY -- Changing the question wording affects right-to-die survey results. Support for doctor-assisted suicide drops to 45 percent when the question contains the word "suicide"; support rises to 69 percent when the question refers to the "wishes of a dying patient." See Graph

SUICIDE -- Four in ten Americans (40 percent) say that if they were in severe pain and suffering from an incurable disease, they would consider committing suicide. About the same number say they would help a family member kill themselves in the same situation. But few (12 percent) say they have considered killing themselves. See Graph , See Graph , See Graph

EDUCATION -- While more than half of Americans with high school diplomas say doctor-assisted suicide should be legal, the level of support increases among college and post-college graduates. See Graph

MINORITIES -- Blacks and Hispanics are more likely than the general public to oppose assisted suicide. See Graph , See Graph

BURDEN -- Most Americans worry about the burden their families might face in making end-of-life decisions for them See Graph

ASSISTANCE -- Only 6 percent of doctors nationwide say they have written a prescription to hasten death or administered a lethal injection, according to the first national study of assisted suicide by the New England Journal of Medicine. See Graph

PAIN -- Pain and suffering is common among terminal patients and so are treatments such as feeding by tube and the use of ventilators, according to one study. Another study found few doctors were familiar with patients' advance directives. See Graph , See Graph , See Graph

[IHT]

IF IT MENTIONED SUICIDE, SUPPORT DROPS.



this graph is new, since i did my speech. deals with t. schiavo.

[RcktS4]

Originally Posted by FpDoc77

RCT hmm about what...maybe you can further explain your stance. The fact that I havent yet reseached the medical law in another state? Or that Im offended by the suggestions that physician are cruel and keep people alive and in pain to make lexus payments?

No, it was the fact that you were offended at someone having an opinion and chastised him for it in nearly the same breath that you offered your opinion without having researched the topic of discussion.

Just a little sense of irony behind it...

I have heard a hell of a lot of opinions from people that do not understand this law, have not researched the law, and argue against what the law does not say.