They are taking my dog!

[mhailey]

Originally Posted by tfar

I'm on a fence on this one. I am the biggest dog lover you could possibly imagine. My mother back in Germany still has the dog I picked and raised, a Dalmatian. We leave her alone only on very rare occasions. You certainly know that dogs, while they are animals, are by no means wild animals any longer. They have over hundreds of years taken on traits of human companionship. Or you could say that this is actually not the case and that dogs still are very much in their dog behavior and having dog needs. Any which way you turn it, there are cases of separation anxiety with a lot of dogs. It comes out as destructive behavior, as escaping, as nipping or aggressive behavior.

Usually this stuff can be dealt with fairly quickly by changing the situation and by training, say within a matter of months, unless there is a pre-existing history of abuse where the dog has become so badly traumatized that the damage might be irreversible or take longer to heal.

The reason I don't own a dog now is that I find it quite cruel to leave a dog alone for longer than 3-4 hours on a regular basis. Until I reach that situation I will not get a dog even if I would like nothing more.

Some dog psychologists say that when you leave a dog for several hours the dog doesn't know you will be back and thinks you left it for good, which obviously causes stress and anxiety. Whether that is true for all dogs, who knows? But for some it certainly is.

If I try to put myself in the position of the rescue people, I see a person who does leave their dog alone longer than what would be desirable. The dog also displays somewhat aggressive behavior towards the youngest in the pack. So this makes you somebody who would rather get rid of the dog instead of investing time in sorting out the problem. Stay, sit, come are very elementary things. It takes much more time and effort to make the dog a viable companion and family member. But apparently this person doesn't have the time because the dog is left alone for quite a long time and quite often and regularly. Or the person doesn't have the knowledge or desire to work with the dog. Now the dog rescue folks care for their dogs more than for the owners of those dogs. That's the nature of their business. So instead of taking you by the hand and explaining you what to do to keep the dog, they take it back, which is what you asked them to do in the first place.

Your reaction to them seems certainly like over-reacting, bitching and narcissistic or at least self-centered. Not necessarily great qualities for a dog owner. So they probably are glad they got Ruby back and they have quite certainly no means to take Jake away.

So while I understand your pain for losing a dog and for being treated like this, and not knowing all the circumstances, I think I would side with the rescue folks here.

Smoke a cigar and relax. And maybe think about the fact that Jake is alone now and that this is even harder for him to be left alone for so long. So the question comes up whether you should just actually get another dog so Jake is not alone and hope that dog has a better disposition, or whether it makes sense to give Jake away, too, so you can concentrate on your jobs without a bad conscience for leaving the dogs alone and nobody that can reproach you with neglect while at the same time knowing your kids are safe and saving tons of money. The rational option would probably be the latter. But, alas, dogs are not a rational thing.

Till

It is amazing how some people are willing to sacrifice the sanctity of the home in exchange to appease the nut jobs. It is not narcissistic to want to protect your home, and its integrity. How about you buy an antique car, and the prior owner demands uninvited, unannounced entrance onto your property to view the car, and that you are caring for it to his/her satisfaction, and if he/she is not satisfied the he/she will unilaterally repossess the car? Would you agree to such a demand when it is not in the contract of sale?

I must say that training will not alter the inherent behavior of a dog and a breed. It just won't do it. you can look down on me for surrendering Ruby, but the training will not change her inherent dominance issues, and the inherent traits of the breed which included the nipping of my children. I spoke with a veterinarian (besides my dad) who had many years of dealing with Ruby's breed, and she stated that Ruby's breed is not a good breed to have with young children. The decision to surrender her was not taken lightly, but with a heavy heart, and it had to be done.

Matt

[bigjoe]

I agree, Hang in there Matt !!

Wow, deep topic but ironically simple IMHO. The dogs at a rescue are either going to be put down or adaopted. If a person takes the time to fill out the adoption papers, ect... checks out ok.... then cut the dog loose to them and leave that person alone. Do a followup 3 and 6 months. If all OK, WRITE THEM OFF AND MOVE ON.

Enter the property ? people that do that here have a good chance of getting shot.

I work with a guy that has 7 dogs. He is married, 30's, no kids him & his wife. I have been around a while and I am pretty street-wise. He feeds his dogs better than himself and wife. I ask "when are you having kids?", the answer gets a muddled i dont know/ not sure if we will, reply. Is it a responsibility issue ? Are they overwhelmed with responsibility ? physically cant isnt it so he says.

My gut tells me there is a little mental illness or better a psychological issue at stake with people of this type.

Bottom line, they value the dogs more than people. That is an illness. Period. A dog is an animal but kids, coworkers, are "humans" and 'Deserve' a little higher value that a dog.

I worked with one of these PETA nuts (until she got fired for harassing the blind guy in our office about his seeing eye dog ).

Dog = Animal
People = Human

( just a reminder for those 'animal' nuts that read this forum )

Yes I have a dog and care for him very good, and well...like most would .... I treat him like a dog.

[Alpedhuez55]

I adopted my dog from rescue. part of the agreement was that he was to be an indoor dog. I think that is the case with a lot of the rescues. He came from a house that did not treat him well and never took him to the vet.

My main issue with the rescue was that they painted a rosier picture of his health. He has had a lot of issues. He has had a lot of skin problems and nothing has worked to keep them in check. He keeps getting these large cysts. But he is a sweetheart.

Rescues are not shelters. The agreement on them will be different from a shelter. Look what happened last year with Ellen Degeneres when she tried to give away a rescued dog. They took it away from the family she gave it to.

They probably stated in the agreement that they were to be kept indoors. It also probably says that they retain some sort of ownership of the dog as well. They probably should have been more upfront about the terms of the adoption. But if you are leaving him outdoors during the day, you are probably violating their contract and they have the right to take him away. They will probably do so with the escort of an animal control officer

Is it over the top, probably. You are not abusing the dogs. But you did agree to certain terms when you adopted them. If you do not want to live up to those terms, then you should return Jake as well. And if you want to bankrupt an animal rescue and try to drag then through the mud...all I can say is you are the A$$hole in that situation.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by tfar

The reason I don't own a dog now is that I find it quite cruel to leave a dog alone for longer than 3-4 hours on a regular basis. Until I reach that situation I will not get a dog even if I would like nothing more.

Some dog psychologists say that when you leave a dog for several hours the dog doesn't know you will be back and thinks you left it for good, which obviously causes stress and anxiety. Whether that is true for all dogs, who knows? But for some it certainly is.

Your reaction to them seems certainly like over-reacting, bitching and narcissistic or at least self-centered. Not necessarily great qualities for a dog owner. So they probably are glad they got Ruby back and they have quite certainly no means to take Jake away.

I chuckle as no one in America would own a dog if they could not leave them alone more than 3-4 hours.
Most jobs in the US are 8 hour days and most families have two working spouses, with kids in school and they do own dogs.

My two dogs and my borrowed third, my daughter's that I currently also care for, all go in their crate for a normal work day.
They eat and do their thing in the morning and willingly walk into the crate and wait for us to close it for them.
The crate is a shelter for them and a place to go rest, not a prison or a punishment so therefore, there is no anxiety or stressed issues. In fact, during the course of the day when we are home, they can normally be found in their crates resting, all on their own accord. If the doors are not accessible for some reason, they scratch and bark to ask to be let in them.

When we return from our day, they are allowed out to walk again and do their needs. They sleep in our bedroom with us and await the next day when they will spend it in the crate again if a workday and none of us home.

I think I can go out on a limb and state that is not unusual for most folks.
It is not cruel.
It does not cause the dogs to freak out.
I would love to speak to a dog shrink that actually spoke to a dog and got that information out of them that they have anxiety and are stressed., too funny. I think that shrink needs a shrink of their own.

[cp478]

i would definitely double check my paperwork

as long as the dogs have food shelter and water they shouldnt have a problem.

good luck its sounds like your in for a fight!

[smitdavi]

Originally Posted by Blueface

I chuckle as no one in America would own a dog if they could not leave them alone more than 3-4 hours.
Most jobs in the US are 8 hour days and most families have two working spouses, with kids in school and they do own dogs.

My two dogs and my borrowed third, my daughter's that I currently also care for, all go in their crate for a normal work day.
They eat and do their thing in the morning and willingly walk into the crate and wait for us to close it for them.
The crate is a shelter for them and a place to go rest, not a prison or a punishment so therefore, there is no anxiety or stressed issues. In fact, during the course of the day when we are home, they can normally be found in their crates resting, all on their own accord. If the doors are not accessible for some reason, they scratch and bark to ask to be let in them.

When we return from our day, they are allowed out to walk again and do their needs. They sleep in our bedroom with us and await the next day when they will spend it in the crate again if a workday and none of us home.

I think I can go out on a limb and state that is not unusual for most folks.
It is not cruel.
It does not cause the dogs to freak out.
I would love to speak to a dog shrink that actually spoke to a dog and got that information out of them that they have anxiety and are stressed., too funny. I think that shrink needs a shrink of their own.

Couldn't have said it better. There are times when we have to leave our pup 4-5 hours in the crate and I can tell you he DOESN'T have anxiety or stress issues lol. Yes we feel bad about it but it just works that way sometime.

Matt, wish you luck. Can't imagine what it's like to give up the other dog.

[Blueface]

I was just getting ready to leave the house and as I usually do, I go looking to make sure I can count three dogs and all are in the house and none left in the patio.

When all is quiet, I know where they can be found.
The Yorkie heads for the guest room and goes under the bed. That is because my daughter took the second crate to her house as the Pit now does a split residence deal as I can't part with her.
The Pit and the Maltese are buds that have to be together.
I knew where I would find them.
I then remembered this thread.

It is all about what you make the crate out to be.
If a home, they love it.
As you can see, it is open and they are free to go in and out as they wish, yet that is where they prefer to be when resting.
The Pit can't even fit in there properly as that is the crate for the two little guys. Hers is triple that size yet she doesn't seem to care.

[dogsplayinpoker]

I canno teven imagine what would have happened to my Grandfather if he were alive and keeping hunting dogs today. He had anywhere from 6 to 15 at a time in a pen in his backyard. They had housing enough for all to get shelter, he dewormed them on a constant basis, and fed them a mixture of dog food and table scraps. I lived with them a few times and one of my jobs was to clean the pen each day after school. These dogs were for his coon hunting and the master-pet agreement was clear to the dog and my Grandfather. He would be in jail by todays standards.
I have owned many dogs. I have had to put down one and give another away because I could not care for him after he was hit by an a-hole driving too fast. Both situations broke my heart. I would classify myself as a dog-lover. However, when it comes down to the bare bones of the issue, people come first.
Good luck with your situation and I admire you for trying to help by taking rescue dogs.

[Jonesee]

Dogsplay makes a great point. If I adopt a hunting dog,let's ay a German Shorthair or Lab, or I adopt a working dog, an Australian Cattle Dog or Blue heeler, are these dogs required to stay inside too? Or one of the hounds, bloodhound or redtick? Or very large dogs, a Newfoundland or St Bernard?

I grew up on a working farm and my dad is still on it. Those dogs are not made for the inside. They are bred to be outside working.

In all sincerity though, would they be required to be inside also?