I am a bit disappointed in some people here

[Shelby07]

I am a bit disappointed and, quite frankly, puzzled.

A few weeks a go Jitzy and I ran a super bowl pool The rules of the pool was that everyone would get their packages out to the winners within a week after receiving instructions, or the sender needed to make other arrangements with the recipients. Pretty simple, eh? Apparently not.

There was a good bit of preparation and effort put into running the pool. Jitzy and I had fun, so I'm not saying anyone owes us anything for that part. But rules were posted, and rules are rules. They apply to everyone, not just most people.

This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing happen. People who entered the pool all expected to receive cigars if they won. and Jitzy and I expected to add a bit of fun to the football game and the board. All we were looking for is for everyone to follow some simple rules that they agreed to when they entered.

One of the things that people outside of this board tend to criticize is the trusting nature of the culture here, and sometimes these folks are proved right. Everyone who comes here is given the benefit of the doubt. Some people take advantage of the trust that is given to them. Others take obligations with a grain of salt and think that as long as they make things right eventually, those obligations have been fulfilled and there is no harm done. The first group are a hopeless cause and are eventually found out. It's the second group of people that puzzle me.

Here's the bottom line... and I don't really believe that I feel such a strong need to say it...

If you agree to participate in a pass, sponsor or enter a contest, enter into a trade or make any other commitment, you need to honor that agreement in a timely manner. Rules are posted to set expectations and keep things running smoothly, and by entering the event you are agreeing to follow those rules. I understand that people get sick, have to go out of town unexpectedly, or have other unforeseen events come up. But all they have to do is send a quick PM or a post explaining what they are going to do. Not only is it courteous, but you have an obligation to do so. If you're in a pass and it's going to take more than a day or 2 to turn it around (it should NEVER take longer than that under normal circumstances,) let someone know or ask that you be skipped or the pass be reordered. If you sponsor a contest then get mad at the board, fulfill your obligations before you leave. Don't cancel the contest. If you enter a contest or a pass, read the rules and if you don't intend to abide by them 100%, then don't enter. If you agree to a trade, get your end out quickly. If you are someone who is constantly stretching the rules and your behavior gets swept under the rug, don't think that no one notices. Your reputation is being harmed and, even worse, people who know and trust you are probably taking a stronger offense than some casual acquaintance. There's nothing worse than having trust and friendship taken advantage of.

Nobody here wants to offend anyone. While that makes for a good place to come, it breeds a lax attitude in that some people get the impression they can do whatever they want and they will eventually be welcomed back with open arms. Well, if that's you, realize that you may be given the courtesy of being welcomed back, but the trust that others may have had in you will not be given back so freely.

If you want to be part of the community and have the respect of people here, make an effort to earn it.
- Have you agreed to be part of a tasting panel? Get your review out quickly. Stogie and the manufacturers provide these things for you to smoke, not to age and smoke down the road. Don't want to give a review quickly? Then don't ask to be part of the panel.
- Are you in a pass? Don't hold onto the box for a week or two before you pass it on... that's just downright disrespectful to the person running the pass and the others who are waiting. How hard is it to pick a couple of cigars and put some back. This ain't rocket science.
- Can't get to the post office? Well, one thing is for certain... everybody here has an Internet connection. If you commit to something that requires sending out a box, take it upon yourself to go to the USPS web site and learn how to print a label and schedule a pickup. If that's too much of an effort, then don't make commitments you don't feel are important enough to fulfill.

My point is, there are plenty of excuses but rarely any reason for not following through with an obligation you make on this or any other board. If you don't think the rules should apply to you, then don't enter an event and think you can make up your own.

...and a little advice to new folks here. Don't come on the board begging for cigars. Expect to give a little and start to establish yourself before you start asking for things. It annoys more people her than let on.

Stogie is working on a system that will give us the ability to rate how people perform on the board. I would strongly suggest that we all use it in a way that will reflect someone's actual performance, not another way to stroke somebody's ego. As this board grows, the unconditional trust policy is becoming more and more of a problem. As for me, I will not be running or joining too many contests or passes in the future unless I feel comfortable with ALL of the participants.

For those of you who won cigars in the super bowl pool, be assured that you will get them, even if I have to send them myself. For those who have disappeared, make your intentions known sooner rather than later or don't expect too much sympathy from me.

[bobaganoosh]

Very well said. Maybe you should send a PM to the members that have not yet fulfilled obligations, that they soon will be outed in the forum. Thus negating any further involvement in trades or such.

[Shelby07]

Originally Posted by bobaganoosh

Very well said. Maybe you should send a PM to the members that have not yet fulfilled obligations, that they soon will be outed in the forum. Thus negating any further involvement in trades or such.

I've been PM'ing for a week. My sentbox is getting filled up.

[bobaganoosh]

Originally Posted by Shelby07

I've been PM'ing for a week. My sentbox is getting filled up.

maybe lack of payment could have you banned for a short period...

[CHRIS7891011]

I know that in the past I've taken longer than I should have to send a package or two out. Even now I have a couple boxes waiting to get packed up (not really important boxes but some bombs and payback never-the-less. I do agree that this forum is very trusting and that the nature of this trusting board sometimes attracts the wrong kind of people.

I think it's great that we're getting a rating board (even more than the Trader tally). Hopefully it will help out. Unfortunately it's hard to tell who is going to fulfill obligations and do what they commit to before their first trade/sale/pass.

[Deuce Da Masta]

Thats a lot to read.........

JK. Sorry to hear a few bad apples ruined the fun!

[baboruger]

You know I agree with Shelby. This really annoyed my with the last two blind review panels and I talked with Stogie about this on the phone one night. If you say you will do something do it. I cannot believe that we still are waiting to see what we smoked in panel's 9 + 10 six months ago because so many did not review. It is crazy!

There have been times when things have come up and i have tried to take care of them with a PM. I know that there are delays in things, but with the reviews, come on, how hard is it to smoke some cigars and write up some words on them.

I'm not complaining, just adding to what was said. I think that 99.9% of the people here are great BOTL and do take things seriously, I think with everything there will always be a few who live to the beat of a different drummer. All in all this is a great place with great people, so lets not let the minority take away from the majority of members.

I think the changes Stogie is making are great, i just he did not have to worry about things like this and could enjoy the site without always working to improve (I know that's what you like to do).

Well, those are my thoughts.

[cooljcadetman]

hey shelby, your words are much needed and appreciated! even though I have not had problems, and maybe I tend to slip myself, I do understand where this is coming from. I agree completely and hope your words take heed. I hate to see this community get ruined by the lack of trust. Trust is too valuable to wreck, and without it, most everything on here would not be able to exist! come on guys, lets show our great FOTL some respect and keep it fun for everyone! thanks again shelby and stogie!

[baboruger]

FYI Here is what I wrote back in Nov about the tasting panels:

Originally Posted by baboruger

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and finally figured that I should say something. Now, I am not trying to be negative here, but, I think that the dragging out of the Blind review process goes against the purpose of the activity. When we sign up to do one of these, I think that we are in fact signing up to do something like a job, meaning that we are making a commitment to getting the reviews done in a timely manner so that the manufacturers can get good feedback in a quick time period. You know they are not donating the smokes to this process for our benefit, this is a process for them and I think that it why it is set up.

You know when I first started here I joined one of these, and everyone has had over 4 months now to smoke 5 cigars and review them, and it seems like half of the reviews are not complete. Come on people how hard is it to take an hour out of your day to smoke a free cigar and post a review on this site about it.

I've been dying to know what I smoked, and for the next panel to start up, but I don't know if that will ever happen because after 4 months there is little hope of getting these done.

I just hope that the next group will take this seriously and finish these up in a timely manner. If you make the commitment to do this, then I think that you should do it within a reasonable amount of time.

Anyway, sorry to vent about this, but it has been really bugging me as I think that this is one of the best things for this site as it gets the manufacturers here and interested, and I just really don't want to see this interaction with them to stop.

Ok, I'm done venting, I just want to know what I smoked at the beginning of the summer!

[Shelby07]

Originally Posted by bobaganoosh

maybe lack of payment could have you banned for a short period...

I'm not looking to come up with a solution, I think Stogie and the mods are working on that and will come up with something. I'm looking to point out to a few guilty parties that their actions don't really go unnoticed.

[Shelby07]

Originally Posted by CHRIS7891011

I know that in the past I've taken longer than I should have to send a package or two out. Even now I have a couple boxes waiting to get packed up (not really important boxes but some bombs and payback never-the-less. I do agree that this forum is very trusting and that the nature of this trusting board sometimes attracts the wrong kind of people.

I think it's great that we're getting a rating board (even more than the Trader tally). Hopefully it will help out. Unfortunately it's hard to tell who is going to fulfill obligations and do what they commit to before their first trade/sale/pass.

Bombs and paybacks are a totally different story. I am talking about the people who feel it's ok to agree and obligate to something then blow it off.

Sorry folks, I am just a bit frustrated here and I know that my post is addressing just a very very small minority of people here. The problem is that those are the ones who cause the trainwrecks.

[cybervee-cl]

Originally Posted by Shelby07

My point is, there are plenty of excuses but rarely any reason for not following through with an obligation you make on this or any other board. If you don't think the rules should apply to you, then don't enter an event and think you can make up your own.

There are plenty of excuses but rarely any reason for not following through with obligations you make in life -period.

It all comes back to how you were raised. My father taught me that your word is your bond, and it only takes an instant to lose respect but many, many years to get it back.

Unfortunately, not everyone had a father like mine to teach them how to be a man.

[tx_tuff]

Mark I agree with you 100%, I have been surprised by more than one person around here, and one is to many!

[ylo2na-cl]

great message! BOTLeaf on CIgar Live are really awesome. Unfortunately, whenever something grows as well as this site has, the old "bell-shape" curve always takes place and we have that group on the other end of the spectrum that really screws it up for all. Bringing that group into the "fold" will be a never-ending quest, but, it must be done! Since everything on the site is free, the only requirement asked is to be "accountable" for something YOU agreed to do in a timely fashion! Nothing more, nothing less! Our strength as a site is in the members, so dont take advantage of other's goodwill and generosity. I think what you had to say goes a long way in trying to close the gap with those who are less responsive and responsible than they should be. In sum, if the message fits you, GET IT DONE! HOW HARD IS THAT?
Best,
Ylo2na/chuck

[JoeyBear]

This is one of the reasons I do not get involved with contests and most other happenings on here. I've been burned too many times to count with trades and contests that I've given up on it. There are many...MANY...great BOTL/SOTL on here, but the bad ones have made me give up.