Its a Sad Day Part Two

[htown]

John if you want to continue with this dialogue, and I appreciate you answering the questions, you should answer the question Jitzy put before you.

[jitzy]

Frank let me say this,
Toastie Coastie-- banned for what he said on snobs
Mitro-- banned for what he said on ******* he hasn't posted on here in weeks so why ban him.
Dogwatch section removed-- why because of what was said on there show about Puff.com

both you and jon said they should not be banned for what they said somewhere else but niether one of you said they should be un-banned

[joncaputo]

OK so should we put it up to a vote - whether all people banned should be unbanned when we move to Puff.com?

[joncaputo]

Originally Posted by jitzy

Frank let me say this,
Toastie Coastie-- banned for what he said on snobs
Mitro-- banned for what he said on ******* he hasn't posted on here in weeks so why ban him.
Dogwatch section removed-- why because of what was said on there show about Puff.com

both you and jon said they should not be banned for what they said somewhere else but niether one of you said they should be un-banned

We are discussing this right now Jitz..see above post

[baboruger]

Originally Posted by jitzy

Frank let me say this,
Toastie Coastie-- banned for what he said on snobs
Mitro-- banned for what he said on ******* he hasn't posted on here in weeks so why ban him.
Dogwatch section removed-- why because of what was said on there show about Puff.com

both you and jon said they should not be banned for what they said somewhere else but niether one of you said they should be un-banned

I doubt anyone banned would really want back in...but it is the gesture that would count.

[joncaputo]

Originally Posted by htown

John if you want to continue with this dialogue, and I appreciate you answering the questions, you should answer the question Jitzy put before you.

Lets continue the dialogue on things that matter..bashing me on the price of shirts that a. I have no control over and b. are sold out and c. i dont think jitz wanted one anyway lol

so lets keep the dialogue on track with the big points that matter..

[joncaputo]

Originally Posted by baboruger

I doubt anyone banned would really want back in...but it is the gesture that would count.

Also a good point - I mean just because we unban someone doesnt mean they want to come back. Maybe we only unban those who WANT to come back?

[Cigary]

I have read all the posts here and admire the men who came here to ask the questions,,to get the answers and conducting themselves honorably. These are solid people asking these things, it's important that the members be heard and their questions answered honestly. Yes, members are going thru a very hard time because they feel protective of this environment that was their home for awhile and felt like anyone who is protective of something that means so much. If anything Jon, look at it from their shoes, these are people who would fight, challenge, get mad because they care,,,they care enough to fight for it. We're not asking you to lay down and let us run all over you but rather we're asking questions to be reassured.

That reassurance took a dirt road when people were losing their membership with an automatic ban,,,no suspension, no PM, just a get the hell out of Dodge. Did you really think they were going to just go away and lie down and lick their wounds? Would you? You already said that you responded with emotion and we all know what happens when we lose our objectivity to the realities of what is going on. Can you imagine if any of us had our fingers on a nuclear button?

Point being is there always needs to be a resting period before making such long term decisions and I am convinced that was why there were rules in place about how to go about dealing out justice. Yes, there will always be those who 'test' the rules but apply them consistantly at all times and guess what,,,,you'll be a consistant leader and it's hard to argue with someone who always abides by the rule of law,,,you show your credibility by doing it that way, you show leadership, you make the members feel that you will be fair no matter what. When we feel that we aren't being treated fairly then you have to expect a $h*tstorm because the rules weren't being applied across the board to all.

My suggestion is, and it may be a tough one for you, re instate all you banned with the caveat that this is a one time pardon. State for the record that there be no personal attacks accepted, no abuse but down to earth question and answer on maybe another thread specific to this matter for ALL who want to know. Trust me, your credibility will only go up. Will you be tested? Absolutely because members will want to see if you walk the walk. For those who are given a pardon they will either come back and be productive or they will come back and step on their junk. Either way, you took a calculated risk,,,,just like you did when you bought the place,, and if it works you're a hero and you stood up and took the chance to make things better. If you don't do anything and let things stay the way they are then you will have to deal with the aftermath. I'd rather be seen as someone who was willing to do the hard things to make things work and be seen as a real leader as opposed to doing nothing and let the sores fester and get infected. I would hate to have a once great cigar forum take on the appearance as the HIV of cigar boards.

A lot of people are watching this,,,more than we know. Anti cigar lobby people are having popcorn and beer and enjoying the show. Let's clean this up and become leaders in this hobby we all say we love.

[baboruger]

Ok, here is another question:

What is your opinion of the policy that was on here before of making users just "Look like they stopped posting" meaning, scrabling passwords and changing the e-mail address in their profile so that they cannot get there password...

FYI before anyone (Frank and Daniel) chime in, there are some of us who KNOW, it was confirmed by a phone call, this is happening...

[joncaputo]

Originally Posted by baboruger

Ok, here is another question:

What is your opinion of the policy that was on here before of making users just "Look like they stopped posting" meaning, scrabling passwords and changing the e-mail address in their profile so that they cannot get there password...

FYI before anyone (Frank and Daniel) chime in, there are some of us who KNOW, it was confirmed by a phone call, this is happening...

No idea on this..as you can tell Ive always been blunt force trama - so if someone is spamming, bashing, cursing Ive used a simple ban. Ill have to ask those guys about passwords being changed..

[MikeGates]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I have read all the posts here and admire the men who came here to ask the questions,,to get the answers and conducting themselves honorably. These are solid people asking these things, it's important that the members be heard and their questions answered honestly. Yes, members are going thru a very hard time because they feel protective of this environment that was their home for awhile and felt like anyone who is protective of something that means so much. If anything Jon, look at it from their shoes, these are people who would fight, challenge, get mad because they care,,,they care enough to fight for it. We're not asking you to lay down and let us run all over you but rather we're asking questions to be reassured.

That reassurance took a dirt road when people were losing their membership with an automatic ban,,,no suspension, no PM, just a get the hell out of Dodge. Did you really think they were going to just go away and lie down and lick their wounds? Would you? You already said that you responded with emotion and we all know what happens when we lose our objectivity to the realities of what is going on. Can you imagine if any of us had our fingers on a nuclear button?

Point being is there always needs to be a resting period before making such long term decisions and I am convinced that was why there were rules in place about how to go about dealing out justice. Yes, there will always be those who 'test' the rules but apply them consistantly at all times and guess what,,,,you'll be a consistant leader and it's hard to argue with someone who always abides by the rule of law,,,you show your credibility by doing it that way, you show leadership, you make the members feel that you will be fair no matter what. When we feel that we aren't being treated fairly then you have to expect a $h*tstorm because the rules weren't being applied across the board to all.

My suggestion is, and it may be a tough one for you, re instate all you banned with the caveat that this is a one time pardon. State for the record that there be no personal attacks accepted, no abuse but down to earth question and answer on maybe another thread specific to this matter for ALL who want to know. Trust me, your credibility will only go up. Will you be tested? Absolutely because members will want to see if you walk the walk. For those who are given a pardon they will either come back and be productive or they will come back and step on their junk. Either way, you took a calculated risk,,,,just like you did when you bought the place,, and if it works you're a hero and you stood up and took the chance to make things better. If you don't do anything and let things stay the way they are then you will have to deal with the aftermath. I'd rather be seen as someone who was willing to do the hard things to make things work and be seen as a real leader as opposed to doing nothing and let the sores fester and get infected. I would hate to have a once great cigar forum take on the appearance as the HIV of cigar boards.

A lot of people are watching this,,,more than we know. Anti cigar lobby people are having popcorn and beer and enjoying the show. Let's clean this up and become leaders in this hobby we all say we love.

Great post! I agree, unban.

[baboruger]

Originally Posted by joncaputo

No idea on this..as you can tell Ive always been blunt force trama - so if someone is spamming, bashing, cursing Ive used a simple ban. Ill have to ask those guys about passwords being changed..

Frank would not know...I think there is 1 person who did this in the past.

[The EVP]

Originally Posted by joncaputo

OK so should we put it up to a vote - whether all people banned should be unbanned when we move to Puff.com?

I think everyone should get a clean slate. Extend the olive branch to them and offer to let bygones be bygones. However, moving foward after Puff opens up, I don't think there should be a member vote. The members and adminstration both have to trust the judgement of the Moderators. Moderators are supposed to be a liason between members and admin. They should not be affraid to let both an adminstrator or a member know when they are stepping over the line. An adminstrator should be held to thes same rules that they expect their members to follow. However, there should be certain criteria met for a member ban to be necessary:

1) What took place to warrant a ban?
2) What rules were violated?
3) What other steps have been taken (warning, suspension, etc...)?
4) A minimum of 2 moderators need to approve a ban.
5) Once a decision is made, the mods should post publically what happened and why a ban was necessary with all the information above listed in the thread.
6) What happens in PM's or other boards does not count.

Mods or Admin's should not be affraid to hear what a member has an issue with something. But the member needs to be able to explain WHY they have an issue. To give an example, I tell every sales person in every store I visit to not be affraid to tell me if they feel my phones suck. However, they better be able to explain WHY they feel that way and give me the opportunity to address the concern.

[tx_tuff]

Originally Posted by jitzy

Frank let me say this,
Toastie Coastie-- banned for what he said on snobs
Mitro-- banned for what he said on ******* he hasn't posted on here in weeks so why ban him.
Dogwatch section removed-- why because of what was said on there show about Puff.com

both you and jon said they should not be banned for what they said somewhere else but niether one of you said they should be un-banned

Toasted Coastie was banned for what he posted here.

Mitro was not an active member here and posted he would never come back. But I don't agree with being banned because of what was said on another forum.

I don't know anything about the Dogwatch because I don't listen to any of the pod cast, not even CL's. So I can't say anything about that. I didn't even know his section was removed.

[jitzy]

Originally Posted by joncaputo

No idea on this..as you can tell Ive always been blunt force trama - so if someone is spamming, bashing, cursing Ive used a simple ban. Ill have to ask those guys about passwords being changed..

I know I sound like a jerk for this and I don't mean to be but I said this to you on the phone last week and you said you would talk to Daniel about this then so either your trying to avoid this subject or you honestly forgot.