Student punished for spaghetti beliefs.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Empowering every (technical) right ultimately leads to the erosion of all rights.

Yeah!

[bazookajoe]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Empowering every (technical) right ultimately leads to the erosion of all rights.

Bingo.

[Ceedee]

Originally Posted by gvarsity

It's a counter intuitive attack on intelligent design. They are presenting themselves as an ID peer like you say except the flying spaghetti monster is a obviously ridiculous concept even to them.

The FSM position exposes the logical fallacies of the ID argument. They hope to discredit ID by showing that since FSM, a blatantly a ridiculous concept, is equally defensible as ID, ID is also not credible and should not be taught either. Essentially they are saying no scientifically indefensible arguments ala ID should be taught or all of them should be taught including the imaginary ones.

Well stated gvarsity. What it really comes down to is perspective. Perspective and who gets to decide what laws/rules are to be made or followed depending on who has the perspective with the most power. The FSM movement seeks to unbalance those in power by using their own arguments against them...

[gvarsity]

Originally Posted by ca21455

FACT # 1

There are several million cigar smokers in the world, this would certainly out number the many splinter religions that many accept as valid.

FACT #2

There is no dispute among the BOTLs and SOTLs of the world of the spiritual experience gained in smoking a cigar.

FACT #3

Donations are made frequently to honor the spirituality of cigar smoking.

FACT #4

Lemon v. Kurtzman, 91 S. Ct. 2105 (1971)
Established the three part test for determining if an action of government violates First Amendment's separation of church and state: 1) the government action must have a secular purpose; 2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion; 3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and religion.

[SIZE=4]The only conclusion that can be made is the government is inhibiting our right to advance our religion and should cease and desist immediately.[/SIZE]

If you went though the process of registering as a recognized religion you would arguably have some protection. I know Native Americans have had exceptions made for peyote (legal to use) and tobacco (tax exemptions) because of religious use.


In response to Da Klugs
"Empowering every (technical) right ultimately leads to the erosion of all rights."

The devil is in the details. I agree with this basic idea of this generality but you have to draw the line somewhere and where that line is drawn is important. One would hope that common sense would keep any court from forcing the FSM dogma into a classroom. The student is well within his free speech rights which is a primary right not some quasi-technical BS right. Now he very well may lose and that is how the line is drawn. Even though this plays out as a goofy religious freedom thing it is really a free speech issue commenting about Intelligent Design. ( I realize you didn't want a response but have a hard time keeping my yap shut sometimes. )

[Da Klugs]

Students until 18 and to an extent 21 have special rights afforded to minors under our laws. Juvenile being the operative word. Conversely, they have a limited version of rights that are afforded to adults, having to wait for consensual sex, voting, alcohol, military service, and the big one... waiting till 25 for rental car privileges.

Making shit up on the fly and then asking the general population to eat it along with their well established menu choices runs counter to the concept of "established". Maybe a waiting period like CS only longer possibly 100 or 1000 years before a "new" religious group is afforded the rights of those that have put in the time might weed out those not truly committed.

[rumballs]

Originally Posted by gvarsity

One would hope that common sense would keep any court from forcing the FSM dogma into a classroom.

Just as one would hope that common sense would keep any court from forcing Intelligent Design into a science class...

[davemo]

Well, the important thing is this: when you go to public school, you give up some of your rights. You don't have a right to create a distraction for your fellow students (so no coming to class naked), which I assume dressing as a pirate on a daily basis does. Doesn't matter if it were a legitimate part of the religion, it would still be distracting. And, of course, The Church of the FSM isn't a real religion...

[Malik23]

Originally Posted by davemo

Well, the important thing is this: when you go to public school, you give up some of your rights. You don't have a right to create a distraction for your fellow students (so no coming to class naked), which I assume dressing as a pirate on a daily basis does. Doesn't matter if it were a legitimate part of the religion, it would still be distracting. And, of course, The Church of the FSM isn't a real religion...

Do not blaspheme! Or he will strike you down with his noodly apendages!!!

[gvarsity]

Originally Posted by Malik23

Do not blaspheme! Or he will strike you down with his noodly apendages!!!

Thats funny! Thats really funny!

"Just as one would hope that common sense would keep any court from forcing Intelligent Design into a science class..."

Touche

"Students until 18 and to an extent 21 have special rights afforded to minors under our laws. Juvenile being the operative word. Conversely, they have a limited version of rights that are afforded to adults, having to wait for consensual sex, voting, alcohol, military service, and the big one... waiting till 25 for rental car privileges."

Agreed! Still he has the right to be proven wrong. "they have a limited version of rights" whether we find it to be a waste of time or not students to do have the right to test the boundaries.

"Making shit up on the fly and then asking the general population to eat it along with their well established menu choices runs counter to the concept of "established". Maybe a waiting period like CS only longer possibly 100 or 1000 years before a "new" religious group is afforded the rights of those that have put in the time might weed out those not truly committed."

Agreed! Still the drawing of the line is tricker than one would think. There are still some crazy "established" religions.

The ID stuff also wouldn't fly with long establishment dates either. Although technically not a seperate religion, and arguably based on Christian beliefs, it is definitley a very new philosophy created specifically to be fed to the general population. -Off soapbox.

"Well, the important thing is this: when you go to public school, you give up some of your rights. You don't have a right to create a distraction for your fellow students (so no coming to class naked), which I assume dressing as a pirate on a daily basis does. Doesn't matter if it were a legitimate part of the religion, it would still be distracting. And, of course, The Church of the FSM isn't a real religion..."

How much more of a distraction is dressing like a pirate than a goth, jock, cheerleader, punker, slacker, whatever, they all are arguably costumes to fit a role. Just depends on how well the role is accepted. I can't see pirate being truly any more disruptive than early goths, or Grateful Dead t-shirts. Dorky as hell but not particularly disruptive. I guess we can't know without having seen the interaction.

[Sean9689]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

...and the big one... waiting till 25 for rental car privileges.

Yeah, the good old days!

[Diesel Kinevel]

This is such . The idea of Spaghetti monster came from SOUTH PARK they arent even original

[gvarsity]

Originally Posted by Diesel Kinevel

This is such . The idea of Spaghetti monster came from SOUTH PARK they arent even original

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[MithShrike]

Originally Posted by gvarsity

"Making shit up on the fly and then asking the general population to eat it along with their well established menu choices runs counter to the concept of "established". Maybe a waiting period like CS only longer possibly 100 or 1000 years before a "new" religious group is afforded the rights of those that have put in the time might weed out those not truly committed."

Agreed! Still the drawing of the line is tricker than one would think. There are still some crazy "established" religions.

Drawing the line is nigh on impossible if tolerance is a goal.

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

and the big one... waiting till 25 for rental car privileges.

That one is killing me! Can't say that i'm excited about catching up halfway to klugsie, but at least I will finally be able to rent a car on the cheap!

[Da Klugs]

Your percentage will just keep increasing year after year until .....

Bam you're old!