North Korea and their Nukes.

[SeanGAR]

Saddam Hussien was a direct threat

EDITED:

Well, he did but up massive stockpiles of Cubans....if thats what you mean....

[Jeff]

This will be my last post on this thread because it is obvious that some of use are getting a bit bent out of shape. The same ones that voted down creating an area for controversial issues.http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/poll.ph...ults&pollid=80
The respect we have for each others opinions amazes me.

Here is one of many polls that I can find on the net. BTW, I don't use CNN or Fox, or the other conglomerate news agencies. Its impossible to get accurate news when less than 6 companies own all the media in this country. Remember Fox during the election? Bush's cousin made the decision to call it a win in Florida when the other networks didn't???

Anyway. I'm an average citizen with real problems and concerns. Most of the people I talk to are being vastly more affected by issues like education, healthcare, unemployment. Who cares about some korean or iraqi when you can't afford to go to the doctor, or are out of a change? These are the real issues we deal with. I ask why isn't the administration dealing with them?

Korea. Get real man. The US isn't some altruistic benign force in the world. We only do things if there is something in it for us. the only reason we went into Korea is because we were scarred of the spread of communism. Not to help out the poor people there. Same with Vietnam. WE would still be in there too if they didn't boot us out.
and Saddam... There is mass murder everyday in Africa, but we don't bother because there is nothing valuable there for us.

Lets bring back peace to CS. There isn't a place here for issues as hot as this.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by coppertop

Can I live in your dream world???????? Please, then I could just disregard all the evidence of him killing tens of thoudands of his own people because they held a different religious belief

EDITED:

So you see Memphis last night? Man, they were ON!

[AAlmeter]

[size=7]no Blood For Kias[/size]

[AAlmeter]

Our allies will take action with NK should the UN deem it necessary. I dont see why the US constantly wants to patrol the world imposing our views. Truth is subjective, there is no right and wrong, it all depends on one's point of view. If the common view of the world, including the warlord nations of Africa and the vote of Coffee Amen, think NK is a threat, pink and baby blue helmets will march in and take care of things for us. Besides, if they should attack, its our fault. We are the ones who have upset the world balance and universal kharma by attacking Iraq, fully unprovoked, simply to steal their oil and sand deposits. Saddam did nothing wrong, and forget about WMD, they didnt even have side arms as they adopted the UN-approved gun control program to pacify Coffee Amen....which worked like a charm.

All I am saying, is give peace a chance



[SIZE=1]I have to go shower, this sarcastic liberal BS make me feel dirty[/SIZE]

[Scott M]

I'm out. Don't like where this is heading.



S.

[TheSmokingHiker]

Wow, this is the most heated thread ever. I am not going to say anything about politics. All I am going to say is that it is amazing how diverse we are. I am reading everyone fighting. Where I dont agree 100% with any of you, it is great to hear your side on the issues because it allows me to better understand the world around me, am I making sense here? I think the coolest part about this thread is that at the end of the day, we are all still LLG's. We all may have completely different views on almost every issue, but when it comes down to it, we can unite around cigars. Ok, there is my "soft side" coming through. ...done

[AAlmeter]

We do a good job at expressing our opinions and returning to decent human beings afterwards. But that is what friends do. People will always disagree (because everyone else is wrong....bwaahahaha), but we do remain civil. That is why I like the fact that Paul allows our little side rants/chats. We say what we need to, and then carry on. I think we are all mature enough to realize that misunderstandings are no reason to kill friendships/online friendships/whatever you call the relationships on this board.

And yes, we do have an interesting group on this board. Makes for very good conversation, from cigars to travel to politics to dead mouse stories.

[MM2(SW)S]

I wasn’t thinking the ramifications of posting a controversial subject like this. There have been varying degrees of opinions. All validated by ones own beliefs. There are a few things that appear egregiously wrong the situation. I see tempers rising and there is no leeway for various opinions. There is a one-tracked thought process and the dogmatic responses that seem to add more fuel to the fire. I posted this to see ones thoughts and hopefully have a more thought invoked discussion.

Now to get back to a maturity level to maintain a civile discussion that affects everyone here.

North Korea admitted to having Nukes. There have been known evidence of manufacturing of weapons of mass destructions. A nuke is far more dangerous than a dirty bomb. The kill zone is far greater and the aftermath far worst than a dirty bomb. So in effect, N. Korea having a Nuke is a threat to our safety. Point 2. N. Korea has long range missiles. The il-Jung ii was reported to have the distance of or the range to reach the shores of California. Point 3: Long range missiles + Nukes + big trouble. So N. Korea has a nuke that is able to reach the shores of the US. This is more a threat than a hijacked plane. A nuclear weapon, like stated in my first point is a extremely dangerous. N. Korea who also stated they hated the US and the US way of life. A country now that has nuclear capabilities and a chemical imbalanced midget leader who wants nothing more than to get attention to himself, even if that means threatening America. He, the leader of N. Korea the very Napoleon syndromatic man who thinks he is David trying to fight Goliath. N. Korea for those simple reasons a far greater threat in my opinion than Iraq was, Iran is about to be, and Afghanistan could have been. There were different reasons for evading Afghanistan(get Ossama) Iraq(suspect WMD) but the threat was insignificant compared to the possibilities of North Korea. They have pulled out of the multi-nation talks. The countries surrounding the N. Korea don’t want to upset a mad man for the fear of a nuclear attack. Now I would have liked the emplacement of sanctions, but the UN and sanctions don’t get along to well, see oil for food scandal. Now is the time for action. The best defense is a great offensive.

Now these are my opinions. I know there is a lot of difference in my opinion than most people here. I like to see how people think and feel. That is me. I know after everything is said and done we all can light up a good stogie and enjoy each other company. If this is to controversle of subject by all means have PDS to delete it. I will understand it, no problem for me. I would much rather be putting one liners down and post whoring then trying to think and type all this out. But that is again just me.

[AAlmeter]

Iraq, Iran, etc are a threat because they do not have nukes. We're at a stalemate with any country with nukes. What do we do, invade? OK, nuclear war. Sanctions/embargos? His people already eat dirt for supper, what does he care. UN weapons inspectors? We need to off any country without nukes who is an enemy of the US/World. Do it while it is easy.

He has the world's attention. If he were to strike, he knows hed be dead in 2 seconds. NK would be gone. It would be pointless. But if he were to sell his capabilities to say, somewhere in the middle east, and let them do the dirty work, its a win-win for him. His country is economically dead and he is busting his balls every day to stay afloat. He could use the money. Plus he knows he will not face nuclear war if he sells to terrorists/saddam and lets them launch/deliver the nukes.

We either need to BS him around, give him some platform shoes, and buy time until Communism topples in NK, or make one hell of a strike. Get in, knock the crap out of everyone, no more complaining about a dead civilian...it would be war, and war to save the world....no worrying about what France and Germany and Barbara Boxer think. Go in Patton style, hit hard, humiliate them, then begin rebuilding, just like in Germany.

[Butch]

Very interesting thread.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and the ability to state it.

I also have learned first hand that the media tells what sells and not the truth, hence so many conflicting reports on the same issue, no matter what the story is about, be it war, sex, scandal, money politics or baby seals etc..

With that I digress and let sleeping dogs lay.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by IHT

okay, lets say it takes 3 parts to make a chemical weapon. they find part 1 over there, part 2 over there, and part 3 in another area....

I am done with bitching and putting in my one cent on this thread, but I do want to address this specific point.

Most of the chemicals that would be used to make chemical agents, be they vesicants, blood, nerve or what have you, have MANY other purposes besides making chemical weapons. In my laboratory I have the chemicals to make phosgene and other chemical weapons and I daresay 99% of the organic chemistry laboratories in the US do as well.

We saw in Okie city what heppened when a few drums of fertilizer & diesel fuel were ignited with a couple of sticks of dyamite. No chemicals Saddam had in Iraq could logically be used to attack the USA. Anybody wanting to make chemical agents to attack us would logically find the goods here & make them here, the same way Al Queda found the airplanes for 911 here and the Japanese terrorist cell made chemical weapons and released them there.

This does not mean Saddam did not have chemical agents in the past, it is abundantly clear that he did. It does not mean he did not have the capacity to make them, of course he did. However, every country in the world with even a rudimentary chemical industry has the capacity to make them. Many industrial chemicals are often toxic, as people in Bhopal found out and Americans did recently with the chlorine leak in the tanker.

Singling out certain chemicals in Iraq as potentially being used for chemical agents is a complete red herring as they have many other legitimate uses. He had no stockpiles of chemical weapons, as a year of searching as abundantly shown.

Sean

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I am done with bitching and putting in my one cent on this thread, but I do want to address this specific point.

Most of the chemicals that would be used to make chemical agents, be they vesicants, blood, nerve or what have you, have MANY other purposes besides making chemical weapons. In my laboratory I have the chemicals to make phosgene and other chemical weapons and I daresay 99% of the organic chemistry laboratories in the US do as well.

We saw in Okie city what heppened when a few drums of fertilizer & diesel fuel were ignited with a couple of sticks of dyamite. No chemicals Saddam had in Iraq could logically be used to attack the USA. Anybody wanting to make chemical agents to attack us would logically find the goods here & make them here, the same way Al Queda found the airplanes for 911 here and the Japanese terrorist cell made chemical weapons and released them there.

This does not mean Saddam did not have chemical agents in the past, it is abundantly clear that he did. It does not mean he did not have the capacity to make them, of course he did. However, every country in the world with even a rudimentary chemical industry has the capacity to make them. Many industrial chemicals are often toxic, as people in Bhopal found out and Americans did recently with the chlorine leak in the tanker.

Singling out certain chemicals in Iraq as potentially being used for chemical agents is a complete red herring as they have many other legitimate uses. He had no stockpiles of chemical weapons, as a year of searching as abundantly shown.

Sean

You know what gets me about you Sean....youre sitting in your lab, with WMD components nonetheless, screwing around with peanuts. Dont get me wrong....I love peanuts, but couldnt you check out flavor chemistry of Habanos? I spent some time studying to be a bioengineer, granted on the mechanical side rather than chemical, but if you would just lay off the peanuts we could put our politiical differences aside and put our heads together for the good of the cigar community. It could be the H-2005 wrapper. But no....peanuts.

[SeanGAR]

Adam,

You know that I am very interested in trying to explain that habano twang.

Let me tell you a bit about the equipment that I have. I have a GCMS (gas chromatograph mass spectrometer) with a nice library that can help identify chemicals. My chemical library, I am loathe to admit, cost $5000 for one effing CD, the entire GCMS something north of 80K and we're doing a 25K upgrade soon. So If I could extract the aroma from Cuban cigar smoke, I could analyse it using the GCMS to identify chemicals. Yeah, there is what, a thousand chemicals in tobacco smoke...it would be like finding a needle in a haystack....BUT....

I also have a GCO, gas chromatograph olfactometry. We separate the chemicals the same way we do for GCMS, but we sniff the effluent from the column. So if we were lucky and something smelled "twang", we could then identify it based on GCMS retention.

So the combination of GCMS and GCO may be able to identify what chemical produces twang so we can better understand why it happens in Cuban tobacco and not as much (or at all) in HoNDa tobacco, to try and come up with a way to make FdOs taste like Cohiba LE Pyramids.

Interesting work, really interesting. If I could get some funding I would drop the peanuts and everything else and work on tobacco flavor FOR THE GOOD OF MANKIND.

Sometimes it is not one specific chemical but a combination of several that produces a flavor. Tomato taste is a combination of 8 different chemicals at the correct concentrations. So it might not be easy. If I was living in Canada I would be doing this work. If I publish the work here, somebody will no doubt question how I could have analysed Cuban cigars. I might be able to say I followed a mysterious man around with his cat named Einstein......

Sean

[AAlmeter]

Im familiar with a GCMS but the GCO is new to me. Very cool. But hey, even if you cant work on Habanos, playing with your nuts is more appetising than designing poop stir tanks. Mmmmm.....fecal flocculation....never a dull moment for me.