North Korea and their Nukes.

[MM2(SW)S]

Fox is reporting that North Korea broke off negotiation with the 6 nation talks, then admits in having Nuclear weapons. “ We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the (Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty) and have manufactured nukes for self-defense to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK," the North Korean Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the official state-run Korean Central News Agency http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146950,00.html

I was wondering how this make some of you feel? In my opinion North Korea is a bigger threat than Iran, Iraq and any other nation in the Middle East. I would like to see the US forces taken out of Germany re-deployed to South Korea along with US forces pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan and also re-deployed to S. Korea. Then amount and all out offensive. That is my opinion so what are some of you opinions?

[IHT]

Originally Posted by MM2(SW)S

I was wondering how this make some of you feel?
IHT - i don't like it, cuz i'm roughly 15 miles south of the DMZ as i type this!!

In my opinion North Korea is a bigger threat than Iran, Iraq and any other nation in the Middle East.
IHT - true, but how many NKPA radicals have taken over our planes and flown them into buildings? or taken people hostage at the Olympics and killed them? or blown up a plane during a flight? or attempted to blow up the WTC with a large bomb in a van? or, or, or... i could go on.
and if you think japan and the other countries will let this sh*t fly, think again.

I would like to see the US forces taken out of Germany
IHT - that's already in process for the past few years...

re-deployed to South Korea
IHT - the reverse is happening, they are moving OUT of S. Korea, and the S. Koreans want it that way.

along with US forces pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan
IHT - i agree, we don't need to babysit anymore after the elections. let them continue to kill themselves. we've already pulled out of Kosovo though...

and also re-deployed to S. Korea. Then amount and all out offensive.
IHT - uh... not a good idea. terrain would whoop our asses. there's only a couple of routes north from the DMZ, and the NKPA knows this... the only way we'd be able to win that war is if we did it the way OTHER countries would do it, and BOMB THE HELL OUT OF THE POPULICE. hit them where it hurts, be damned with the way the world would look at us. that's what they'd do, and that's not what they've spent the past 50 years practicing to defend.
of course we'd have to bomb deep with air and naval gunships because they are an artillery based army, funded/trained by the russians... so, for the people down south to survive the first few days of a war, they'd have to take out all that artillery QUICK, or it'll be all over.

my answers are in the quote, bolded.
just my opinion, and most commanding generals who have fought here in the korean war, or have commanded 2ID in the past...
[SIZE=1](what do you think i'm doin' over here now??)[/SIZE]

[Scott M]

Just a lowly E-3, but I'm with IHT on a bunch of stuff here. China, Russia and Japan need to be ALOT more worried about this than we are. The Pacific ocean buys us more time to react should these puppies decide to go tactical. And they haven't come out and said "we want to destroy you and your way of life", nor have they been linked (to the best of my knowledge) with organizations the HAVE said this.

Escalation of troops; They're needed elsewhere and are stretched pretty thin already, it would serve as a justification of NK's statement of needing to protect itself from the U.S., they don't want us there, and I don't know anyone who came back from a tour in Korea with anything good to say about it, (or an intact marraige for that matter). Negative Ghostrider...the pattern is full.

Economic sanctions; Would only serve to further NK's agenda and they've worked so well with Cuba and Iraq.

My take: North Koreas' political base (and I could be wrong) is much more stable than their economy. Let the Sino-Asian countries deal with them politically and have the US take the lead in aligning political pressure from the EU and North American governments. At the same time, we strongly consider giving them FN trading status... not as a bribe mind you. I think MFN status has helped bring the Chinese govt. to a point where they have something to lose at the negotiating table. Once the North Korean population gets it's Coca Cola, Levi's and Baywatch, (and it's govt. starts to see a positive cash flow), the govt. can rattle their sabres all they want, but we have a level of control on their income.

I'm just a former groundpounder, but I think once their government (figuratively speaking) and their population (literally speaking) are kicking back in their Barcolounger watching Pyongyang Idol and stuffing KFC in their faces on payday, I think they'll be alot less interested in rocking the boat.


My two cents. Now I have to get back to what I'm smoking this weekend.

Scott"moneytalks"M

[SeanGAR]

The lesson learned by radicals of course is that if you have nukes (North Korea) the US will flap their lips and do nothing. If you do NOT have nukes (Iraq, Afghanistan) the US may invade. Don't think this lesson hasn't been learned by Iran, who is working as fast as they can to match Israel's nuclear ability and get the trump card, nukes, that prevents US invasion. In fact, I'm surprised North Korea and Iran haven't made some "Nukes for oil" deal already.

[coppertop]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

The lesson learned by radicals of course is that if you have nukes (North Korea) the US will flap their lips and do nothing. If you do NOT have nukes (Iraq, Afghanistan) the US may invade. Don't think this lesson hasn't been learned by Iran, who is working as fast as they can to match Israel's nuclear ability and get the trump card, nukes, that prevents US invasion. In fact, I'm surprised North Korea and Iran haven't made some "Nukes for oil" deal already.

I think you need to re-read what IHT and Scott posted. NK isn't a threat....at least not as big as Iraq and Afganistan. Really, what IHT typed pretty much sums it up. Plus Korea, both South and North isn't much to fight over. The North would have just a hard time invading SK as we would NK.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by coppertop

I think you need to re-read what IHT and Scott posted. NK isn't a threat....at least not as big as Iraq and Afganistan. Really, what IHT typed pretty much sums it up. Plus Korea, both South and North isn't much to fight over. The North would have just a hard time invading SK as we would NK.

No, I read what they said, I have a different take on that completely. The US would never ever invade NK because of the threat of SK or Japan being nuked. Period, end of story. NK tests missiles that fly over Japan, they have nukes, = no threat? hardly. Certainly they are more of a threat than Saddam ever was.

[IHT]

Certainly they are more of a threat than Saddam ever was.

uh..... you think that NK is more of a threat than saddam ever was to the US??
------------------------

the military has plans, of course, if provoked to attack just about anywhere. 98% of them are reaction type of actions, like here in korea.

all i know is, if NK plans to attack, and they do it out of the blue, by the time the US catches wind via the news, half the country will be gone.

they're still the largest threat (militarily), but not directly to the US, due to the size/strength of that army...

i won't speculate on the political reasoning behind them starting up their nuclear stuff again.... but i don't feel they're trying to use it as a "trump card".

nukes is not why we went to afghanistan and iraq. dirty bombs, chemical/bioligical weapons are not nukes. also, the terrorist threat is not coming from NK.

mike - yes, NK has tested missles that have "accidentally" flown over parts of japan.

anyway, would we invade NK? if you other americans are upset over the lives lost in Iraq/Afghanistan, then you wouldn't want to see what would happen over here.... the TERRAIN is such a BIATCH over here... very, very small avenues of approach, not only for "ground" troops, but fixed wing and rotary. there is unpassable terrain north of the DMZ almost on the entire left half of the penninsula. there are 2 avenues on the right half that lead to pyongyang... that's about it.

those hilltops are pretty steep/high (troops overwatching obstacles to call in artillery). if we were to cruise up there, get bogged down by an obstacle or something, and we hadn't bombed them into the 1800s, the artillery would rain down like "lake effect snow" in upper NY.

add the fact that they, during the early 90s, had a 7:1 manpower ratio over us, and now thanks to clintons major downsizing of the military, it's even worse....

nope, we aren't going up north.

just my opinion....... [SIZE=1]after 14+ long years of countless seminars on this very subject... but i know nothing of this, really, i don't.[/SIZE]

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by IHT

uh..... you think that NK is more of a threat than saddam ever was to the US??

You do realize that Saddam was zero threat to the US? He had no WMD. He had no weapons endangering us whatsoever. I have a better chance of developing a nuckular bomb in the next 5 years than he ever did.

He had no connection to 911, he had no connection to Al Queda, there were no terrorists in Iraq that was under his control.

He was a pimple on Israel's ass, but thats all, and no threat whatsoever to the US nor would logic determine that he was a future threat.

North Korea has nukes. They have long range missiles. Their nukes are supposedly able to reeach California. They are sitting next to South Korea and Japan. Their leader is mentally unbalanced.

North Korea more of a threat than Saddam? You honestly don't think nukes landing on California is more of a threat to the US than scuds landing on Israel?

Sean

[Jeff]

Lets see now. Put yourself in N. Korea's shoes. Everyone knew Iraq didn't have WMDs yet the U.S. invaded them for oil. What is to stop the U.S. from bullying N. Korea?

You have to realize that the rest of the world dosn't like our self appointed role of world police. Look at South Korea. They living right next to North Korea and still would rather the U.S. get the hell of their country.

The Iraq war was for oil, not because of any danger to the U.S. Its time the U.S. stops meddling in everyone elses affairs unless we all want to paint a large target on our heads for the extremists. Recent polls say that our hightest concerns now are education, healthcare, and jobs. This war bullshit is just a smokescreen to keep the publics attention off of the important issues. Look at our deficit. It is the highest ever in our history. Man, our great grandkids will be paying for this this administrations war.

To some it up. Leave N. Korea alone. They are surrounded by many capable countries that can handle any situation. Its time we stop wasting our money fixing everyone elses problem and fix our own.

[IHT]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

You do realize that Saddam was zero threat to the US? He had no WMD. He had no weapons endangering us whatsoever. I have a better chance of developing a nuckular bomb in the next 5 years than he ever did.

He had no connection to 911, he had no connection to Al Queda, there were no terrorists in Iraq that was under his control.

i respect your opinion and was just coming on to ask you "politically" what would you do to NK..

but, now, i have to answer about this stuff.

no WMD? did you READ THE REPORT yourself, or just what CNN was quoting. they had WMD, there was just a report released last week that all the military guys were talking about...

okay, lets say it takes 3 parts to make a chemical weapon. they find part 1 over there, part 2 over there, and part 3 in another area.... and the report clearly states that he was only pacifying the UN resolutions until the sanctions were dropped...

as i said when all this was going on, what about all the troop carriers that were leaving iraq before we invaded that were headed to syria, but there were no soldiers on them? they were carrying what?

no ties to 9/11? the reports out of russia that said they KNEW he had ties to al quieda don't mean anything (wish i had that link again). no terrorists in iraq under his control? okay... lets say that you're right... does FUNDING and being UNDER CONTROL really matter? i don't care if he was controlling them, he was housing and funding them with contributions.

i knew this would turn into an iraq thing with some people... the US intel community was not the only intel that was saying iraq had ties with al queda, were all of them wrong? i don't think so.

enough of that, there's plenty of people who just don't like what happened in Iraq and just don't like GW... oh well... let's get back on topic..

i want to know what YOU (SeanGAR) would do POLITICALLY to NK. what would your plan be to deal with them?

also, someone mentioned cuba (embargo/sanctions). this isn't cuba. if there were more than 1 major country that had embargos/sanctions against cuba, it probably would've worked (but i'm no historian or political professor).
now, if Japan, china, and all these other big bad countries over here start flexin' a bit o' pressure on NK at the same time the EU and/or UN does, it'll really hurt them. they (NK) can't support themselves for long, they are already starving in some places...
takes a group effort, i feel.
like i said, i'm not a poli-sci guy... these are just my thoughts "politically".

but lets try keep it away from Iraq/saddam/al-queda/osama and peoples hatred for the current administration. this is a totally different subject in my eyes.

nice topic, i just hope everyone reads reports that CNN only quotes a couple short sentences from to distort the REST of the report (like the first 90+ pages of the WMD report - which is online somewhere for everyone to read, i know i quoted a LOT out of it during the election topics we had, nobody seemed to have rebuttles for them at that time... )

[coppertop]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

You do realize that Saddam was zero threat to the US? He had no WMD. He had no weapons endangering us whatsoever. I have a better chance of developing a nuckular bomb in the next 5 years than he ever did.

He had no connection to 911, he had no connection to Al Queda, there were no terrorists in Iraq that was under his control.

He was a pimple on Israel's ass, but thats all, and no threat whatsoever to the US nor would logic determine that he was a future threat.


Sean

Can I live in your dream world???????? Please, then I could just disregard all the evidence of him killing tens of thoudands of his own people because they held a different religious belief.

I'm not getting into a political pissing contest here. You have your opinions and I respect that......but to say Saddam wasn't a threat is pretty naive.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

North Korea has nukes. They have long range missiles. Their nukes are supposedly able to reeach California. They are sitting next to South Korea and Japan. Their leader is mentally unbalanced.

North Korea more of a threat than Saddam? You honestly don't think nukes landing on California is more of a threat to the US than scuds landing on Israel?

I don't think those "nukes" they have would ever reach the shores of the US.............do you???? Anyway, the NK aren't going to attack. If they were they would have done it when we first deployed to Iraq...maybe a good time when we were distracted by Saddam and Bin Laden. When NK start hi-jacking planes and crashing them into buildings, then I'll start worrying about NK. Until then I'll sit here in my shitty hotel in SK typing about a place that is only 15 miles north of me.

[Scott M]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

No, I read what they said, I have a different take on that completely. The US would never ever invade NK because of the threat of SK or Japan being nuked. Period, end of story.

No, the U.S. wouldn't invade NK because IT'S JUST NOT WORTH ANYTHING. There isn't a threat. Full stop, EOS. Iraq / Saddam Hussien was a direct threat. Bio/Chem's don't require as much technical backing, (unless you want to do them well), nor do they need the level of sophistication to be as effective (unless you want to blow your wad on dirty bombs). NK doesn't have over a decade of flipping off the UN and the US over sanctions, kicking out UN inspectors, tyrannical levels of oppression and genocide, (including the documented use of said bio/chem weapons), refusing to comply with the post Kuwaiti treaties and stalling the weapons inpection process, (that certainly could have given them time to move any programs), and shooting at our troops in the no fly zones. Not to mention to oil-for-food faisco.

There is no reason for us to give a RFA about North Korea. Iraq is a wealthy, influential middle east nation with a history of anti US sentiments and the posession AND USE of bio/chem weapons.

I'll say it again, because I love the sight of my own thoughts: North Korea's no threat. Not because the US "doesn't invade countries with [a nuclear capacity]". It's just not a good enough reason.

S.

[coppertop]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Lets see now. Put yourself in N. Korea's shoes. Everyone knew Iraq didn't have WMDs yet the U.S. invaded them for oil. What is to stop the U.S. from bullying N. Korea?

You have to realize that the rest of the world dosn't like our self appointed role of world police. Look at South Korea. They living right next to North Korea and still would rather the U.S. get the hell of their country.

The Iraq war was for oil, not because of any danger to the U.S. Its time the U.S. stops meddling in everyone elses affairs unless we all want to paint a large target on our heads for the extremists. Recent polls say that our hightest concerns now are education, healthcare, and jobs. This war bullshit is just a smokescreen to keep the publics attention off of the important issues. Look at our deficit. It is the highest ever in our history. Man, our great grandkids will be paying for this this administrations war.

To some it up. Leave N. Korea alone. They are surrounded by many capable countries that can handle any situation. Its time we stop wasting our money fixing everyone elses problem and fix our own.

Is that what they are teaching in college these day....ignorance????

Go ahead and close you eyes to whats really going on. That way you can sleep at night while our troops are doing their job. Yeah it's a war for oil, thats why gas prices have gone up, not down since the war was declared over. I'm sure our young soldiers would like to know this.....why don't you get on a plane, fly the 24+ hrs it takes to get to Iraq and tell them this. Then you can be just like that dumb b*tch Hilary Clinton. If this sounds like I'm pissed, guess what, your right. I'm tired of people running thier mouth about things they know nothing about.

Like I said earlier.....we all have opinions, those are mine.

[IHT]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Lets see now. Put yourself in N. Korea's shoes. Everyone knew Iraq didn't have WMDs yet the U.S. invaded them for oil. What is to stop the U.S. from bullying N. Korea?
IHT - sorry, i couldn't get past your first paragraph without saying aloud, "what the f*ck?!"
we invaded them for oil and they had no WMD?

You have to realize that the rest of the world dosn't like our self appointed role of world police. Look at South Korea. They living right next to North Korea and still would rather the U.S. get the hell of their country.
IHT - what? self appointed? as far as S. Korea goes... that'll happen after the US has occupied the country for 50 years to help PROTECT it and TRAIN and ARM their defense forces... they feel they've got in under control (at least the civilians).
ever been over here? ever listen to a ton of classified briefings on this subject for more than a decade?

The Iraq war was for oil, not because of any danger to the U.S. Its time the U.S. stops meddling in everyone elses affairs unless we all want to paint a large target on our heads for the extremists.
IHT - dude, it wouldn't matter what we did the past 40 years, they have had painted a target on our backs just for our beliefs, not because we retaliated to an attack on our soil (did you forget that part)?
Recent polls say that our hightest concerns now are education, healthcare, and jobs. This war bullshit is just a smokescreen to keep the publics attention off of the important issues.
IHT - war is a smokescreen to keep the publics attention diverted? if that's the case, then don't' you think the recent polls would show that the WAR is our highest concern? it's not a very good attention diverter if the current polls are as you say.
Look at our deficit. It is the highest ever in our history. Man, our great grandkids will be paying for this this administrations war.

To some it up. Leave N. Korea alone. They are surrounded by many capable countries that can handle any situation. Its time we stop wasting our money fixing everyone elses problem and fix our own.

i'm speechless. no offense, jeff, but i disagree.

i think i'm gonna take a break from here for a long while....

[SeanGAR]

Sorry guys, way too many things you guys have ass backwards for me to get into a long discussion over.

SeanGAR out