Bourbon lovers...in here (pipe forum)

[DeadFrog]

I'm not a bourbon drinker and have ever only tried two types. I lower end Wild Turkey (which I didn't like at all) and Knob Creek. The KC was really quite good. I'm a scotch/whiskey drinker when I go with liquor, but mostly prefer a good ale.

[wintermute2.0]

Originally Posted by brianwalden

In the same way Tennessee whiskey is a specific type of bourbon which other bourbon's can't claim to be, but it's still bourbon. Or at least that's how I see it.

I'm not so sure about that. There's a federal statute on what can and can't be considered a bourbon. Two of the main sticking points are:

Mash Bill - must contain between 51% and 79% corn
Aging - must be stored in new, charred white oak barrels for a minimum of 2 years.

there's other requirements, and then there are additional reqs if you want to add "Kentucky" and/or "Straight" in front of "Bourbon".

[brianwalden]

Originally Posted by wintermute2.0

I'm not so sure about that. There's a federal statute on what can and can't be considered a bourbon. Two of the main sticking points are:

Mash Bill - must contain between 51% and 79% corn
Aging - must be stored in new, charred white oak barrels for a minimum of 2 years.

there's other requirements, and then there are additional reqs if you want to add "Kentucky" and/or "Straight" in front of "Bourbon".

Hmm... Wikipedia lists:

On 4 May 1964, the United States Congress recognized Bourbon Whiskey as a “distinctive product of the United States," creating the Federal Standards of Identity for Bourbon. Federal regulations now stipulate that bourbon must meet these requirements:

• Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.^[1]
• Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
• Bourbon must be 100% natural (nothing other than water added to the mixture).
• Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.^[1]
• Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
• Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.^[2]
• Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging.
• If an age is stated on the label, it must be the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle.

As far as I know Jack Daniel's fulfills all of these requirements (unless the law interprets filtering as adding something to the mixture). It also fulfills the requirements for a Tennessee whiskey (made in TN and charcoal filtered). In my head just as Champagne is a subset of sparkling wine which is a subset of all wine, Tennessee whiskey is a subset of Bourbon which is a subset of all whiskey.

Of course all this is academic.

[brianwalden]

Sorry for highjacking this thread (please feel free to yell at me), but these types of math problems always interest me. I've been thinking and would like to nuance my position. If we're talking about whiskeys actually in existence, as far as I know the only Tennessee whiskeys are bourbons made in TN and then charcoal filtered - which from my perspective makes Tennessee whiskey a subset of bourbon.

But hypothetically speaking it doesn't appear that this must be the case. Someone in Tennessee could theoretically make something that qualifies it as whiskey but doesn't meet Bourbon's requirements, run it through a sugar-maple charcoal filter, and call it Tennessee Whiskey. So if we're looking at all the whiskeys that could ever possibly be made, Bourbon and Tennessee Whiskeys are two separate but overlapping sets. It's merely a coincidence that the Tennessee but not Bourbon set doesn't contain whiskeys that actually exist.

That said I usually try to keep a Bourbon/Tennessee, a Rye, a Scotch, and an Irish on hand at home so I can have whatever I'm in the mood for. For some reason I've never been able to acquire a taste for Canadian Whiskey. I take my Scotch neat and everything else on the rocks - I don't know why that's just how I do it.

[Bassie]

Well,....Bourbon I love it,...
Just opened a bottle of makers mark last week-end. I like single grains a lot ! Besides, I am somekind of a whiskey fan, though, in small amounts. I like Dalwinnies 15 YO a lot, The balvenie 10 y.o. and can get lost in the Whiskey's off Bruichladdich.
Besides whiskey,...i guess my heart is into rum. So much love that !!!

[maboman]

Two words WILD TURKEY

Jack Daniels is NOT a bourbon. I am from Tennessee and think very fondly of Jack, but it isn't a bourbon.

Maboman

[plexiprs]

On your petard of choice ....... Wikipedia says,

Tennessee whiskey is filtered through sugar maple charcoal in large wooden vats prior to aging. Tennessee whiskey is not bourbon whiskey, as defined by Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Chapter 1, Part 5, Section 5.22.

and

Tennessee whiskey is an American whiskey that undergoes a filtering stage called the Lincoln County Process, in which the whiskey is filtered through a thick layer of maple charcoal before it is put into casks for aging. This step gives the whiskey a distinctive flavor. The process itself is named for Lincoln County, Tennessee, which is where the Jack Daniel's distillery was originally located. In 1871, the Jack Daniel's distillery and the surrounding area became part of the newly created Moore County.
Presently, there are only two brands of Tennessee whiskey on the market: Jack Daniel's and George Dickel.

JD is Whiskey; Bourbon is Whiskey. Scotch is Whisky!

[cp478]

im from kentucky !

what do you think?

[uvacom]

If you actually read the federal code, it appears that JD could be called bourbon if the company chose to do so. There's nothing that says it can't undergo charcoal filtering. But colloquially JD is usually considered to be separate from bourbon.

But whatever...personally I think plain JD is overpriced swill, Gentleman Jack's is too heavily flavored, and by the time you get to single barrel, there are so many other competitive whiskies that I just pass it up.

As far as bourbons go, Evan Williams Single Barrel used to be a huge bargain but it has gone up in price (at least locally). Eagle Rare has become my go-to bourbon, I think it's about $22 at my local place and I personally feel one would have to spend more than twice as much to get a bourbon of greater quality.

[DSturg369]

To answer the original question.....

Originally Posted by SgtStriker

Makers Mark, is my favorite.

Same for me.

I'm not a big beer drinker but I will down a couple now and again. As for the afore mentioned Scotch, I haven't found one I like yet so Bourbon remains my drink of choice.

As for pairing, good 'ole PA does well for me.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by brianwalden

Hmm... Wikipedia lists:

On 4 May 1964, the United States Congress recognized Bourbon Whiskey as a “distinctive product of the United States," creating the Federal Standards of Identity for Bourbon. Federal regulations now stipulate that bourbon must meet these requirements:

• Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.^[1]
• Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
• Bourbon must be 100% natural (nothing other than water added to the mixture).
• Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.^[1]
• Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
• Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.^[2]
• Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging.
• If an age is stated on the label, it must be the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle.

As far as I know Jack Daniel's fulfills all of these requirements (unless the law interprets filtering as adding something to the mixture). It also fulfills the requirements for a Tennessee whiskey (made in TN and charcoal filtered). In my head just as Champagne is a subset of sparkling wine which is a subset of all wine, Tennessee whiskey is a subset of Bourbon which is a subset of all whiskey.

Of course all this is academic.

Most Whiskey's are very similar in taste and even in the method of production. The only real difference, IMHO, is that by Law, a whiskey cannot not be called or used the name "Bourbon" on the label or in their description unless it is made within Bourbon County, Kentucky!!!

[uvacom]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

Most Whiskey's are very similar in taste and even in the method of production. The only real difference, IMHO, is that by Law, a whiskey cannot not be called or used the name "Bourbon" on the label or in their description unless it is made within Bourbon County, Kentucky!!!

What law would that be?

[DSturg369]

There are "Bourbons" and then there are "Kentucky Bourbons". The Latter must be produced and stored (for at least one year of the aging) in Kentucky to be called Kentucky Bourbon. As for "bourbon" itself......

"On May 4, 1964 bourbon whiskey was recognized under US statutory law as a distinct product that could only be produced following certain standards. Title 27 (Alcohol, Tobacco Products, and Firearms) of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 5.22 outlines the standards of identity. The five criteria are:

Made from a fermented mash with a minimum of 51% and a maximum of 79% corn
Distilled at less than 80% alcohol/volume (160 proof)
Stored in a new, charred, white oak barrel at a maximum of 62.5% alcohol/volume (125 proof) for at least 2 years
The original color and flavor of the whiskey can not be filtered or altered in any way
Must be produced and stored (for at least one year of the aging) in Kentucky to be called Kentucky Bourbon
Also, the section clearly states "that the word 'bourbon' shall not be used to describe any whiskey or whiskey based distilled spirit not produced in the United States". These criteria provide the important guidelines for production, but in practicality, bourbon producers use a 70% corn mash, and the final bottling is somewhere between 40-50% alcohol/volume (80 to 100 proof)."

[Dylan Cerling]

I like Wild Turkey and Jim Beam Black.

I had a bad, bad experience with Knob Creek - the only time I've had real, honest-to-god alcohol poisoning - and I'm never going to have it again.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by uvacom

What law would that be?

After completing some additional research, it appears that my interpretation was wrong. Apparently there is no such law, although well into the late 1800s that was kind of a belief. Apparently bourbon can be produced anywhere, as long as it qualifies with some standards, which are outlined in the following:


BTW, even though Bourbon can be produced anywhere, there are only about six true Bourbons in the USA that are not produced in Bourbon County, Kentucky, and Jack Daniels is not one of them, it's classified as a Tennessee Whiskey!

Wikipedia: Bourbon whiskey
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Bourbon bottle, 19th century.

Bourbon is an American whiskey, a type of distilled spirit, made primarily from corn and named for Bourbon County, Kentucky. It has been produced since the 18th century.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Legal requirements
* 2 Production process
* 3 Geographic origin
* 4 History
* 5 National Bourbon Heritage Month
* 6 Present day
* 7 See also
* 8 References
* 9 Further reading
* 10 External links

Legal requirements

On 4 May 1964, the U.S. Congress recognized Bourbon Whiskey as a “distinctive product of the United States," creating the Federal Standards of Identity for Bourbon. Federal regulations now stipulate that Bourbon must meet these requirements:

* Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.[1]
* Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
* Bourbon must be 100% natural (nothing other than water added to the mixture).
* Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.[1]
* Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
* Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.[2]
* Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging.
* If an age is stated on the label, it must be the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle.

In practice, almost all bourbons marketed today are made from more than two-thirds corn, have been aged at least four years, and do qualify as "straight bourbon"—with or without the "straight bourbon" label. The exceptions are inexpensive commodity brands of bourbon aged only three years and pre-mixed cocktails made with straight bourbon aged the minimum two years. However, a few small distilleries market bourbons aged for as little as three months.

Production process

The typical grain mixture for bourbon is 70% corn — with the remainder being wheat and/or rye, and malted barley. This mixture, called the mash, is fermented through a process called sour mash fermentation in which mash from a previous distillation is added to ensure a consistent pH across batches. The fermented mash is then distilled.

This clear spirit is placed in charred oak barrels for aging, during which it gains color and flavor from the wood. Bourbons generally appear darker the longer they age.

After aging, bourbon is withdrawn from the barrel, diluted with water and bottled to at least 80 US proof (40% abv)[3]. Most bourbon whiskey is sold at 80° proof. Other common proofs are 86, 90, 94, 100 and 107, and whiskeys of up to 151 proof have been sold. Some higher proof bottlings are "barrel proof," meaning that they have not been diluted after removal from the barrels.

Bourbon whiskey may be sold at less than 80 proof but must be labeled as "diluted bourbon."

Geographic origin

Bourbon may be produced anywhere in the United States where it is legal to distill spirits. Currently most brands are produced in Kentucky, where Bourbon has a strong association. Estimates are that 95% of the world's bourbon is distilled and aged in Kentucky[4]. Bourbon has been made in Colorado, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Virginia.[5]

Bardstown, Kentucky, is called the Bourbon Capital of the World and is home to the annual Bourbon Festival in September.

The Kentucky Bourbon Trail is the name of a tourism promotion intended to attract visitors to eight well-known distilleries: Buffalo Trace (Frankfort), Four Roses (Lawrenceburg), Heaven Hill (Bardstown), Jim Beam (Clermont), Maker's Mark (Loretto), Tom Moore (Bardstown, added to the trail on August 27, 200, Wild Turkey (Lawrenceburg), and Woodford Reserve (Versailles).[6]

History
Oak casks, shown stacked in ricks, used to store and age bourbon. Bourbon or rather Whisky in general that escapes naturally from the wooden casks, as seen by the stains along the sides of the barrels, is known to distillers as the "angel's share".

The history of bourbon is not well documented. Instead, there are many conflicting legends and claims, some more credible than others. For example, the invention of bourbon is often attributed to a pioneering Baptist minister and distiller named Elijah Craig. Rev. Craig (credited with many Kentucky firsts, e.g., fulling mill, paper mill, ropewalk, etc.) is said to also be the first to age the distillation in charred oak casks, "a process that gives the bourbon its reddish color and unique taste."[7] Across the county line in Bourbon County, an early distiller named Jacob Spears is credited with being the first to label his product "Bourbon whiskey." Spears' home, Stone Castle, warehouse and springhouse survive; you can drive by the Spears homeplace on Clay-Kaiser Road.

Although still popular and often repeated, the Craig legend has little actual credibility. Similarly, the Spears story is a local favorite, rarely repeated outside the county. There likely was no single "inventor" of bourbon, which developed into its present form only in the late 19th century.[8]

Distilling probably arrived in what would later become known as Kentucky when Scottish, Irish, English, and German settlers began to farm the area in earnest in the late 18th century. The spirit they made evolved and gained a name in the early 19th century.
“ When American pioneers pushed west of the Allegheny Mountains following the American Revolution, the first counties they founded covered vast regions. One of these original, huge counties was Bourbon, established in 1785 and named after the French royal family. While this vast county was being carved into many smaller ones, early in the 19th century, many people continued to call the region Old Bourbon. Located within Old Bourbon was the principal Ohio River port from which whiskey and other products were shipped. "Old Bourbon" was stencilled on the barrels to indicate their port of origin. Old Bourbon whiskey was different because it was the first corn whiskey most people had ever tasted. In time, bourbon became the name for any corn-based whiskey.[9] ”

A refinement variously credited to either Dr. James C. Crow or Dr. Jason S. Amburgey[10] was the sour mash process, by which each new fermentation is conditioned with some amount of spent mash (previously fermented mash that has been separated from its alcohol). Spent mash is also known as spent beer, distillers' spent grain, stillage, and slop or feed mash, so named because it is used as animal feed. The acid introduced by using the sour mash controls the growth of bacteria that could taint the whiskey and creates a proper pH balance for the yeast to work.

As of 2005[update], all straight bourbons use a sour mash process. Dr. Crow or Dr. Amburgey developed this refinement while working at the Old Oscar Pepper Distillery (now the Woodford Reserve Distillery) in Woodford County, Kentucky. As of today, there are no running distilleries within the current boundaries of Bourbon County due to new counties being formed from Bourbon County over time.

A resolution of the U.S. Congress in 1964 declared bourbon to be a "distinctive product of the United States."[11][12] That resolution asked "the appropriate agencies of the United States Government . . . [to] take appropriate action to prohibit importation into the United States of whiskey designated as 'Bourbon Whiskey.'"[11] Federal regulation now defines "bourbon whiskey" to only include "bourbon" produced in the United States.[13]

National Bourbon Heritage Month

On August 2, 2007, the U.S. Senate passed a resolution sponsored by Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY) officially declaring September 2007 “National Bourbon Heritage Month,” marking the history of bourbon whiskey.[14] Notably, the resolution claims that Congress declared bourbon to be "America's Native Spirit" in its 1964 resolution.[14] The 1964 resolution, however, does not contain such a statement per se; it only declares that bourbon is a distinctive product identifiable with the United States in the same way that Scotch is identifiable with Scotland.[11] The resolution has been passed each year since.

Present day

Since 2003, high-end bourbons have seen revenue grow from $450 million to over $500 million (£231 million to over £257 million or €308 million to over €343 million), some 2.2 million cases, in the United States. High-end bourbon sales accounted for eight percent of total spirits growth in 2006. Most high-end bourbons are aged for six years or longer.[15]

In 2007, United States spirits exports, virtually all of which are American whiskey, exceeded $1 billion for the first time. This represents a 15 percent increase over 2006. American whiskey is now sold in more than 100 different countries. The leading markets are the United Kingdom, Canada, Germany, Australia, and Japan. Key emerging markets for American whiskey are China, Vietnam, Brazil, Chile, Romania, and Bulgaria. [16]